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-   -   WK and Torque Management (http://www.jeepgarage.org/f6/wk-and-torque-management-3394.html)

Marlin 10-18-2009 07:54 PM

WK and Torque Management
 
This is for discussion regarding the dreaded torque management that seems to rob so much performance from our (in particular) 5.7 WK's.

4.7 guys, please advise me if there is also TM in your Jeeps and I'll update the thread.

The 3.7 shouldn't have TM I wouldn't think, need T to have TM :p (joking guys! ::)

There's been some talk of how-to remove TM lately, with some saying simply removing the ABS fuse disables TM, but I remain unconvinced. I've tried it and yes, removing the ABS fuse totally disables traction control and ABS, but I can still feel some form of power step, which sure feels like TM.
As many of you already know, there is a couple of different traction control setups in WK's, with the earlier models not able to toally switch off TC via the dash button, it merely "sleeps" and is less reactive.

What I have noticed, particularly when on the beach on hard packed sand, that the power is radically reduced up to around 40mph under hard acceleration in my 2006, even with traction off.
Now interestingly, I've also experimented with using low range on hard sand, and can confirm there doesn't seen to be any artificial torque limiting. Yes, of course it jumps off the line very hard and revs quickly, thats obvious because it's in low range, what I'm saying is there doesn't feel as if there is any "step' to the power produced, just heaps of it.

I'd be interested to see if anyone wants to try it out and give your thoughts? Please if you try it on pavement do it in a quiet area and do not do U turns in low range. Strait lines only ok!

If it's true, maybe one of our electrical gurus can sort a switch to trick the computer into thinking it's in low range, allowing us all our power!?!?!

Your thoughts invited. (except you Dylan, stay OUT).

Robert Palmer 10-18-2009 08:01 PM

Re: WK and Torque Management
 
The fuse pulling like you said only fully disables ESP, which is a great thing because even when I or anyone else for that matter holds down the ESP button until the chime occurs, only 80% of ESP was turned off and it kicks back it at 40 mph+.

That being said, I believe TQ management is programmed in the TCM. And I think that it can be fully disabled if you had a tuned TCM. The tuner you choose will be able to take out whatever amount of TQ management you want BUT once you get to a certain level, I believe your Cruise Control will not work.

Marlin 10-18-2009 08:02 PM

Re: WK and Torque Management
 
So you're saying your Diablo can remove TM....... first I've heard of that on a WK. I know it can do on the 300C's etc....

Robert Palmer 10-18-2009 08:04 PM

Re: WK and Torque Management
 
I had to edit my last post because I said that you need a tuned PCM. I meant TCM.


With a tuned PCM like mine, I can feel that it is reduced but it is still there. The shifts are harder (no homo) than before.

Marlin 10-18-2009 08:07 PM

Re: WK and Torque Management
 
Is this fact Joe or heresay?
I know shift points and shift line pressure is tuneable with it, but TM? You sure?

Robert Palmer 10-18-2009 08:12 PM

Re: WK and Torque Management
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlin (Post 81807)
Is this fact Joe or heresay?
I know shift points and shift line pressure is tuneable with it, but TM? You sure?

That is what I was told by a few tuners and I read that on a few forums.


Look at it this way Ben, where else could the TQ management be programmed into other than the PCM and TCM?

This is how I look at it, with a tuned PCM, you have half of the puzzle solved and to finish it off you need the tuned TCM.


The only thing that I heard with the TCM's is that for a couple of people, the Mopar (LX, Jeep) forgot the programming and went back to stock.

I never heard of this happening with the Mopar TCM though for the LX's. But I cant imagine the Mopar accessory TCM fully disabling TQ management.

Marlin 10-18-2009 08:15 PM

Re: WK and Torque Management
 
Thanks for that Joey my boy.
Now, just to clarify thing because we use different terminology over here in Oz, can you confirm what you mean when you say TCM and PCM please?
I'm always writing my posts to try and get you guys to understand my Australian lingo :)

Robert Palmer 10-18-2009 08:17 PM

Re: WK and Torque Management
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlin (Post 81817)
Thanks for that Joey my boy.
Now, just to clarify thing because we use different terminology over here in Oz, can you confirm what you mean when you say TCM and PCM please?
I'm always writing my posts to try and get you guys to understand my Australian lingo :)

Transmission Control Module= TCM

Powertrain Control Module= PCM or how some may say ECU.

Tim@NCTSLLC 10-18-2009 08:26 PM

Re: WK and Torque Management
 
Torque management comes in two forms, one which is limited via application of the ABS system, and two, the ECU (PCM) actually limiting power via the electronic throttle body.

Pulling the ABS fuse does wonders for the first part. However, you still have the ECU and ETC to deal with.

I saw the ETC in play today when I upped boost, and the system did not like it, decided to overide, and I saw my ETC voltage get cut in half.

This was coupled with spark retard and a fluctuating fuel pulse.

So TM will take a two pronged approach, TCM/ABS, and the ECU for ETC control.

Marlin 10-18-2009 08:29 PM

Re: WK and Torque Management
 
I'm sorry Tim, but any wheel speed reduction via the use of ABS is not Torque Management, that is simply Traction Control.
Torque management is designed to minimise actual crankshaft torque, to save gearboxed and diffs from excessive torque.

Scottina06 10-18-2009 09:28 PM

Re: WK and Torque Management
 
guys...I am lucky the tcm and pcm are the same unit on the 4.7 V8. B&G has done wonders and I think you guys need to talk to them. Tom@MHP needs to chime in here as well.

Frankie 10-18-2009 09:30 PM

Re: WK and Torque Management
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottina06 (Post 81913)
guys...I am lucky the tcm and pcm are the same unit on the 4.7 V8. B&G has done wonders and I think you guys need to talk to them. Tom@MHP needs to chime in here as well.

Im pretty sure its the same as the 05-06 5.7s ;)


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