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-   -   Transmission slipping (http://www.jeepgarage.org/f203/transmission-slipping-44095.html)

Frango100 06-30-2012 05:22 PM

Transmission slipping
 
Ok, there we go again. After a complete rebuild of my 5-45RFE tranny last year due to a worn OD clutch and 3rd gear lost, now it started to slip in 2nd and also in 5th (and showing P0732 and P0735). The clutch application chart shows me that the problem should be in the 2C holding clutch. The fluid is as black as the night but doesnīt smell burnt and there are a few metal splinters on the bodem of the pan. There is also an aluminum color thin layer on the bodem, which is not magnetic, so should really be aluminum. Does anybody know if there are aluminum plates in the clutch packs, or only steel?
Removed the valve body and did an air pressure test on the clutches, according the service manual. The 4C holding clutch was giving a nice thump when applying the pressure, with a bit of air leakage inside the clutch pack. When doing the same on the 2C clutch, there is no real thump, but a fluid mist appears. So there seems to be a problem with a seal or even the piston. But when i do the same test on the OD clutch port, the air comes out of the UD port, which is directly next to it.:confused: Anybody did this test and can tell me that this is normal?
The CVI for the 2C clutch is 133 and should be between 25 and 85, so confirms a worn C2 clutch. All the other clutches CVIīs are within the limits.
Anybody can give me some more tips on testing, before i start tearing the whole thing down? Anybody did a tranny rebuild himself and can share his experiences? The rebuild manual i already have shows very detailed drawings on how the clutches are build up, only wondering how much the pressure of the piston belleville springs is, because the manual doesnīt show anything about it, also no warnings.
Became a long story and i hope it will not scare you guys. I will make updates now and then with some pictures, to make you guys happy.....:pics:
But at the moment iīm not feeling that happy as the smiling faces above, its more like :mad::mad::mad::mad::slapfight::bash:

Frango100 07-15-2012 10:57 AM

Re: Transmission slipping
 
Not too much to mention sofar, not much time to work on the jeep. Lowered the T-case today and the transmission is now ready to be lowered. Only have to find out how to access the upper converter housing bolts. I red somewhere that there is a small access panel, so that you can reach those bolts from the cabin side. Someone knows what to remove on the inside to get access to that panel?

hoffmanestates 07-15-2012 04:20 PM

remove shifter? or the center.counsel

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Frango100 07-21-2012 06:28 AM

Re: Transmission slipping
 
3 Attachment(s)
Ok, had a better look and could not find any access from the cabin to the engine bay. The only way to get access to the upper converter housing bolts is to lower the whole transmission/engine and let it pivot over the forward engine mounts. In that way there is about a 10 cm space at the converter housing bolt area, enough to remove them. I left the bolts at 3 oīclock and 9 oīclock position in place while i removed all the upper bolts, raised the transmission/engine and supported the engine weight at the aft side with a jack, while a jack platform supported the tranny weight. Then after removing the last 2 bolts the tranny came loose easily and could be removed. The tranny comes loose with the torque converter in it, but care must be taken that it will not fall out (not that easy, but you never know). Also when the tranny is balanced on the jack, take care when removing the torque converter out of the tranny, because its weight is considerable and the balanced tranny will suddenly change its center of gravity.
Now its ready for some high pressure cleaning and then up to the work bench ( ehh, just a normal table in fact:rolleyes:)

2005JGC 07-23-2012 02:22 AM

Re: Transmission slipping
 
Air pressure testing is difficult to do, I like to do it for myself too but its really only helpful when testing sub assemblies and the complete assembly while assembling the trans with a liberal layer of assemblee goo on all the seals... some clutch packs just flat out dont go "thump" as suggested and then some only do it the first time.

No aluminum in the clutch packs just clutches and steels, there is A LOT of thrust bearings in the RFE, and you WILL have end play issues if they are not reinstalled the proper direction, so keep an eye on them. I think I have seen the 2C snapring popped out of its land before.

Frango100 07-23-2012 10:23 AM

Re: Transmission slipping
 
2 Attachment(s)
Ok, i have removed all the clutch packs out of the casing and after i removed the 2-4 clutch retainer i already saw something strange to the 2C clutch plates. The first 2 metal clutch plates where in the grooves in the housing, but the last one was in an open space free to rotate????? I discovered where the aluminum under in the pan came from, and also soon had an idea what had happened. The stupid @&%$*$@!%&*):slapfight: of a mechanic who had done the overhaul last year, probably didnīt use an overhaul manual or at least didnīt look well into it, because he mounted the 2C clutch in the wrong way:mad:. Instead of putting the thick backing plate first into the casing, he started with a clutch steel plate, which is very thin. This thin steel plate managed to start rotating inside the transmission casing, wearing away the aluminum. The 2C clutch was in fact only working with the friction of one clutch friction plate instead of 2. Now also the high CVI of the 2C clutch is explained. Now the question is how i can solve this problem. I found out that the thick backing plate has exactly the thickness of the aluminum which is worn away, so probably by buying another backing plate, i could make this work again. I know it is not the best solution, because that would probably be a new/used housing, but iīm almost sure that i canīt find one overhere and shipping of a big piece like this to Brazil would cost a fortune.
Anybody knows where i can find this 2C clutch backing plate?
The first attached picture shows the 2-4 clutch retainer still in place, until here all ok. The second picture shows the 2C clutch. The red arrow shows the thick clutch backing plate, which should have been on the other side of the clutch plates, resting against the tranny housing.

2005JGC 07-23-2012 12:53 PM

Re: Transmission slipping
 
I got nothing, sorry buddy, I actually had a 545rfe that a service contract opted to replace with a used unit instead of repair after I tore it down, they never had the core picked up so I litterally had the whole thing sitting in the corner for months until I got sick of it being there and threw it all in the metal recycling.

bummer deal, Im sorry frank.

Frango100 07-23-2012 01:06 PM

Re: Transmission slipping
 
No problem, but do you have an idea where i could get the thick backing plate of the 2C clutch? I donīt think it will be inside the master kit, isnīt it?

2005JGC 07-23-2012 06:24 PM

No, the reaction plates dont come in overhaul kits... If your interested il see about a price at work tomorrow, I know shipping will suck

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Frango100 08-16-2012 09:13 AM

Re: Transmission slipping
 
The shiftkit just came in today. Now at least i can start opening up the valve body and oil pump and clean it all up very well and change the parts from the shiftkit.
Still waiting for the master kit to arrive, its in Brazil, but they have to calculate how much money they can rob from me this time. (60% tax over kit price + shipping:mad:). Even the shiftkit cost me U$ 210 at the end, so it better will work well).

Frango100 08-19-2012 05:59 PM

Re: Transmission slipping
 
This morning i had some time left and started splitting the oil pump. Cleaned it all very well, dried all parts with shop air and put it all back together. The parts of the shiftkit for the pump all fit very well. Installed new spring on torque converter switch valve, also new spring on the torque converter clutch control valve, 3 new springs on the torque converter clutch accumulator valve + new retainer and a complete new torque converter clutch limit valve. Only the main pressure regulator valve was put back without any changes.
I will put some pics up tomorrow. Next project, the valve body.

cheapjeep 08-19-2012 06:59 PM

Re: Transmission slipping
 
Wow frank you should have stayed in Florida when you came over here.Is there no way we could somehow ship you that part without all those fees? You also put me under a lot of pressure hoping you like the Transgo:lol:Good luck with the rebuild buddy.Let us know if we can help.


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