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chudsy 03-26-2013 06:43 AM

Still moaning a bit !!!!!
Hi All,
I've added more additive to my rear diff but still get a groan - particularly on slow left turns.
Is there anything like a wheel bearing or brake pads which could also cause the noise?

Frango100 03-26-2013 07:00 AM

Re: Still moaning a bit !!!!!
When you changed the diff fluid, was there anything special to see in the old fluid? Metal particles or alike? Did you look at the ring gear and pinion for damage or wear? There are bearings inside the diff and also wheel bearings in the outer side of the axles. Any one bearing could start making noises.
But after you had add the additive, did you make several tight figure 8 turns, to get the fluid/additive mix inside the vari-lock? How much of the additive did you put in finally?
If you have a groaning sound while driving straight, it usually is not a problem with the additive, because there will be no speed difference between the two rear wheels, so the vari-lock will not do anything.

chudsy 03-26-2013 07:28 AM

Re: Still moaning a bit !!!!!
Hi Frank,
I just sucked a bit out and added nearly two ounces more fluid (didn't see anything untoward in fluid). I did do a few figure 8s but I'll do a few more lunchtime in a big open area round the corner.
It's a really weird noise and sounds like rubbing almost but you do feel a slight judder as well. Can the transfer case produce symptoms as I need to change the fluid in that too?

chudsy 03-26-2013 07:35 AM

Re: Still moaning a bit !!!!!
Just a thought, I'll try and make a recording on my phone and upload it so you folks can have a listen.

Frango100 03-26-2013 12:53 PM

Re: Still moaning a bit !!!!!
When you do the figure 8's, do them as tight as possible, so that the Vari-lock will be activated and fluid pumped around. Was the fluid level low, that you had to add two ounces, or was it 2 ounces of additive? No leaks? Is the noise there when driving straight?
T-case can produce noises as well, important is to not let the fluid level get low and ofcourse regular fluid changes will help in longevidity.

dcorn 03-26-2013 01:38 PM

Re: Still moaning a bit !!!!!
I need to change fluids in my TC and diffs as well because I'm having the same issue. Lots of groaning and some shuddering when I'm taking tight turns in my parking garage. Just bought the Jeep from the original owner with 65k miles and figured it'd still have the factory fluid in it, but who knows.

Frango100 03-26-2013 02:00 PM

Re: Still moaning a bit !!!!!

Originally Posted by dcorn (Post 788770)
I need to change fluids in my TC and diffs as well because I'm having the same issue. Lots of groaning and some shuddering when I'm taking tight turns in my parking garage. Just bought the Jeep from the original owner with 65k miles and figured it'd still have the factory fluid in it, but who knows.

Is you jeep Quadra drive? If so, then don't forget to put the limited slip additive in the diffs. No additive or not enough of it, will cause skipping of a wheel in tight turns.

dcorn 03-26-2013 02:10 PM

Re: Still moaning a bit !!!!!
Yup, '04 Overland. Maybe the stock fluid is worn out by now or a dumb dealership changed it with the wrong stuff since it was new, but it's definitely not quiet when turning. I test drove an '02 overland and made sure to try out the tight turns and it was completely quiet.

JeepGC_Fin 03-29-2013 03:53 AM

Re: Still moaning a bit !!!!!
I just joined to Your forum as I saw here seems to be good tips... in some forums they're talking mostly beside the issue...

OK, back to the issue.
(Sorry my english as it will be a bit weird...)

I've got something similar going on with my WJ. It's CRD, but from tranny onwards, should equal to V8 models. Model '04 ('99-'04) and Quadra Drive.
T-Case oils were changeg 'bout a year ago.
Front/Rear last November.
For T-Case, original 247 oil, just checked oil is on a right level (nearly comes out when plug is taken away).
F/R, Mopar 75/140 + additive. Additive were added with a rule of a thumb.. 3/4 of a bottle to a front and the rest + 1 bottle to the rear (4 oz./Crown).

So... T-Case was driven on a "dry ground" (summer conditions, no sound) as it was changed a year ago, but F/R saw first time an asphalt/good friction as snow started to go away (I'm from Finland).
The reason I'm telling this is that while turning on ice/snow, I can hear that sound we're talking but it's not so easy. When we actually come to a point, I can't be sure when this problem/sound started. (Whether it started right after oil change, I mean)
Anyway, A couple of days ago, I turned left, slow speed, no snow, and then I realized this moaning sound as a first time. (Some guy from Aussi forum described it like a Chewbaca/Star wars sound...)
Then I tried it several times and there seems to be a relation to turning radius. If I'll turn "a little", it's like "Chewbaca"/whining sound. If I'll turn more it turns to a sound like wheel is rubbing to somewhere (it's not).

Just right now I'm in a middle of changing rear bearings/seals, because after changing the oil I got (realized?) a leak from right side.

So an other question is (as any axles has not been loosened yet) about spinning wheel(s) by hand.
(T-Case) Gear stick is in Neutral...
-I can spin the wheel but as according to a manual, if I'd like to check how locks will work I should spin an other tire to one direction an the opposite the the other direction, one round /sec. It's really hard to spin that speed... Why? Should it be so?
-And, even the Neutral is activated, rear wheel spins front and vice versa.
And, it's sticky too.

Got to go the garage to make a puller to get rear axle shaft out.
I believe, I have to open propeller shaft (right word??) to find out which end is really sticky.

So, could there be a relation? Between sticky wheels & sound?
Could the progressive clucth be partially close all the time? (If I try 4Lo there's still a huge difference, when turning, so front wheels can't be locked fully) but partially?
And, acceleration on a snow... I can feel, first rear slips a bit then front comes on and then we go...

Thanks Guys...

Frango100 03-29-2013 11:16 AM

Re: Still moaning a bit !!!!!
The first issue still seems to be the vari- lock which is locking up when making tight turns. Did you make several tight figure 8 turns after changing the diff fluid, to be sure that the friction modifier is inside the vari- lock?
Regarding testing the vari- lock, you will need to have both front wheels of the ground. When you turn one front wheel, the opposite wheel should first turn the other way, but soon should turn in the same direction, as the vari- lock locks.
When you select the T case in N, you disconnect the transmission from the T case. You don' t disconnect the rear wheels from the front. So the progressive coupler in the T case will still lock the front wheels to the rear when you turn them with different speeds. Also its normal that the rear wheels slip a bit before the front engage, because there should first be a speed difference before the progressive coupler will engage.
The wheels are not that easy to turn, don' t know if that is what you call sticky?
You can remove the front propeller shaft, just 12 bolts in total when it has the CV joints.

JeepGC_Fin 03-30-2013 10:13 AM

Re: Still moaning a bit !!!!!
A couple of answers, after spending a day with rear axle, changing bearings... Got to make pullers, etc...

-fluid change; those were changed before last christmas, no particular 8's were made, but there were no problems with it -> no need for 8's. I changed fluids because of km's. During the winter, we've had that much of a snow, I haven't realized this problem before - if it had even existed. The first turn on dry asphalt after winter revealed that sound. So, i can't tell whether this occurred right after fluid change.
-T-case in N position... I know it disconnects transmission, but I just wanted to test how sticky it is without it (spinning wheel by hand)
-all wheels off the ground, hanging by hand from propeller shaft, kicking wheels by foot... propeller steady, wheel "spins" by kicking it - locks seems to engage as after a few rounds I can't spin/move it (wheel) anymore.
All corners acts the same way, so I feel they're working? (locks)
-rear slipping... Yes, there's a short delay, before front end comes on, but I can feel it and that means it works - at least somehow.

-T-Case... one theory was that, progressive coupler is partially engaged all the time? But when I lifted the car, I'm able to rotate F/R properllers to an opposite directions. And, when turning, there's really a different feeling if 4Lo/TC is engaged. (Same speed front/rear)

Yesterday night, after bearings change, I drove for a short while to check that bearings are OK and if there's a difference after adding a bit more, 2 oz, additive.
After a few minutes of driving (11 PM), I was able to make that noise. It depends quite a lot of a speed. But - no whining?? Instead this louder noise, like tires were rubbing (as the others are describing it as well).
Coudn't repeat it with 4Lo. When I'm only moving 4Hi, like walking speed, all turned to a left (right) - not that much that steering will make a sound - this sound will appear easily. A bit more speed, and it hard to "find" it.
As I said - a short driving session at that time of the night.

I REALLY wonder if 2oz will change the situation? Only original oils/crown additive was used. All were filled up to a "hole" (Talking about last year).
How sensitive this mixture is? If car is leaning a bit forward (on a lifter), 4 oz is exact amount, but it's possible to fill a bit more of oil. Then there's "less" additive/oil liter.

Got a lot to do during eastern, but I'll try to go somewhere to drive "8"s - just to confirm it wasn't missing 2oz.... (on top of this 4oz + 1/4 bottle, which was added last year...)

...a bit more of this...
From the manual I have...
NV242 1.35L (2.85 pts.)
NV247 1.6L (3.4 pts.)
FRONT AXLE 0.3 L (1 oz.)
186 FBI (Model 30) 1.18 L (2.5 pts.)*
* With Vari-Lok add 0.07 L (2.5 oz.) of Friction Modifier.
REAR AXLE 0.3 L (1 oz.)
198 RBI (Model 35) 1.66 L (3.5 pts.)*
226 RBA (Model 44) 2.24 L (4.75 pts.)**
* With Trac-lok add 0.07 L (2.5 oz.) of Friction Modifier.
** With Trac-lok or Vari-Lok, add 0.07 L (2.5 oz.) of
Friction Modifier.

THIS manual, (looks like a factory manual for '02 Jeep GC WG) tells to add 2.5oz for both ends??? Usually "it's said" 4oz to rear??
So... could it be so that there's too much of it right now? Does anybody know what an extra amount will do/cause?
And... what is the right amount? (If it matters)

Frango100 03-30-2013 03:16 PM

Re: Still moaning a bit !!!!!
My 04 manual also states to put 2.5 oz of friction modifier in each differential.
When you put in too much, it could affect negatively the lubrication properties of the fluid and cause premature wear to the moving parts.

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