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-   -   How to drive 2014 8-Speed 3.6L V6 in ECO Mode (http://www.jeepgarage.org/f73/how-to-drive-2014-8-speed-3-6l-v6-in-eco-mode-66966.html)

mswlogo 10-21-2013 06:54 PM

How to drive 2014 8-Speed 3.6L V6 in ECO Mode
 
This thread is NOT for whiners and is the reason why I did NOT put this under "Trouble Shooting".

This is for folks that want to make the best of what they currently have.

Believe me if there is a new Transmission update I will still be the first in line.

Some background:

When I first got my limited 3.6L V6 I really had a lot of discomfort with ECO mode. It even caused a minor accident (could have been major). I believe my Limited already had the first update (built Aug 10). It upshifted too fast and lagged, lagged on down shifting when already in 5th or 6th (under 40 mph). And when it did downshift it was whiplash and it tended to stay downshifted for what seemed like forever but was probably just a few seconds.

Non ECO mode drove great. I used it often for the first month or so.

I had tried the battery disconnect. And it never seemed to help. Not even for a while.

I got the September update "Rev-A".

Initially no difference, over a week it got real good and then as time went on it was back to how it was before update. Maybe a hair better.

So I had a hunch a lot of the issues are around the Adaptive Learning the transmission does. And probably why some people have no issues. Can I teach it to behave better for ME?

One thing I admit is, at the same time I've been trying to squeak the best MPG I can out of it. I have a very large "Carbon Footprint" and if I can prune it, I WILL. It's not $$$. So I do want ECO mode to work and it absolutely saves gas. So was it my "granny mode" driving that taught it to adapt poorly? Maybe. Can I reteach it?

So I decided to drive it modestly aggressive for a week and change the display from "Trip Computer". Within a few days it was driving VERY much like it does with ECO Mode off. I did disconnect the battery for grins, but I think that had little to do with it. I've disconnected it like 4 times before.

Now I wanted to go back to driving "Granny Mode". Would the misbehavior come right back? So far after a week or so it has not come back. It really is driving quite good. You can tell it still shifts fast from a stop but without uncomfortable lag. And it will go into 8th Early. Well that's how it gets the good MPG. But it's not annoying or unsafe to drive in ECO mode. Where as before it WAS !!

It's now driving nearly perfect in ECO mode. It doesn't lag (which is the root of most problems). I don't think I've gone back all the way to "Granny Mode". But close. Will it stay this way, who knows. I have had no temptation to shut eco mode off.

FYI, I've never had "Clunks" or what I would call "Hard Shifts". Some might call the downshifting to far a "Hard Shift". I don't. It was always smooth and graceful what ever it did right or wrong.

Some other things that might be happening.

1) Break in. I'm only at 3000 miles now.
2) Driver learning to "Adapt".

Regarding the Driver learning to "adapt". Some may consider this "broken" but it has helped quite a bit. When mildly accelerating (under approx. 40 mph) don't push the gas and hold it until it downshifts. That's when it would "over downshift". Push and hold for a second and then back off to where you were. It will smoothly downshift just 1 gear (maybe 2) then give it more gas if you want. It won't downshift further and that's all the power you often want. I realize this seems silly. But it works. I've done it so much now I don't even think about it. After I went through this whole learning process (driving aggressive for week) I don't think it's needed any more. I can push and hold it and it does what you expect. I can moderately down shift and it won't over down shift and won't get stuck in low gear. But it did help me get through it and allowed me to stay in ECO mode without whiplash even when it behaves badly. It's not needed that often.

Try experimenting.

Anyone else in the same boat? Discover similar things?

Again complainers, whiners, please vent in another thread.

jacko15 10-21-2013 07:46 PM

Re: How to drive 2014 8-Speed 3.6L V6 in ECO Mode
 
3,700 miles, and I've never really had an issue with the shifting or handling. I've never had an update either. Since the day I picked it up I drove it, how can I put this, by the seat of my pants. I worked the throttle any way I had to so the vehicle would respond the way I wanted. I never take it out of eco mode, maybe 1/2 dozen times in 6 months. At first there may have been a few little hesitations, and maybe a couple of too quick up shifts. Anymore my Jeep seems to almost anticipate what I want. Just this past weekend, on a road trip into the "mountains" of the Allegheny National Forest, I found myself passing some slow traffic on two lanes going up a fair grade, and my Jeep just seemed to take flight right at the moment I needed to get it going, without even putting the pedal to the metal. Sometimes I wonder why anyone is having a problem with this drivetrain. I've often thought it's because of their driving habits, did I just type that out loud? I'll probably get flamed for that. But seriously, I'm just not getting the problems some here are experiencing. :D

yjbeach 10-21-2013 08:11 PM

Re: How to drive 2014 8-Speed 3.6L V6 in ECO Mode
 
How did it almost cause an accident?

mswlogo 10-21-2013 08:25 PM

Re: How to drive 2014 8-Speed 3.6L V6 in ECO Mode
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yjbeach (Post 914857)
How did it almost cause an accident?

Not for this thread. This is the "Positive" thread :)

f1anatic 10-22-2013 05:29 AM

Re: How to drive 2014 8-Speed 3.6L V6 in ECO Mode
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by mswlogo (Post 914811)

Again complainers, whiners, please vent in another thread.

But that is exactly what you are doing. You are complaining about how the car drives in ECO mode. Hence I will interpret the whole thread as a rhetorical question and that you are seeking ideas on how to drive economically.

If you want to drive economically - start by reading these white papers on fuel economy. I know they are from major truck companies but the same physics principles apply to any fossil fuel - powered car. The better of the two is the Cummins MPG Guide.

  • 2007 Cummins MPG Guide - Secrets of Better Fuel Economy
  • 2008 Kenworth - White Paper on Fuel Economy
As for the Jeep learning the driver behavior, this is nothing new and as time goes on, you will figure out that putting it in SPORT and driving like someone who owns an oil field for about 5 - 10 minutes and doing so in at least 2 engine ON-OFF cycles will largely reset the "memory". And depending on what car forums you ask, you might even be advised to accelerate to red line the car once or twice a month (NOTE - I did not say hitting the rev limiter) as it is beneficial to the piston seals, removing the carbon build-up etc.

mswlogo 10-22-2013 06:12 PM

Re: How to drive 2014 8-Speed 3.6L V6 in ECO Mode
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by f1anatic (Post 915011)
But that is exactly what you are doing. You are complaining about how the car drives in ECO mode. Hence I will interpret the whole thread as a rhetorical question and that you are seeking ideas on how to drive economically.

If you want to drive economically - start by reading these white papers on fuel economy. I know they are from major truck companies but the same physics principles apply to any fossil fuel - powered car. The better of the two is the Cummins MPG Guide.

  • 2007 Cummins MPG Guide - Secrets of Better Fuel Economy
  • 2008 Kenworth - White Paper on Fuel Economy
As for the Jeep learning the driver behavior, this is nothing new and as time goes on, you will figure out that putting it in SPORT and driving like someone who owns an oil field for about 5 - 10 minutes and doing so in at least 2 engine ON-OFF cycles will largely reset the "memory". And depending on what car forums you ask, you might even be advised to accelerate to red line the car once or twice a month (NOTE - I did not say hitting the rev limiter) as it is beneficial to the piston seals, removing the carbon build-up etc.

I regularly get 28 MPG on highway and regulary get 24 City (Suburbs). I rarely see traffic. My Wife regularly gets 38 MPG (sometimes in low 40's) on her VW CC rated for 31 MPG. I know how to drive and take care of my cars.

If you read what I posted. I described how I "readapted" it. So that I can drive it any way I want now in ECO mode and it still behaves great. We'll see if it continues. But I think if you drive very conservatively, say after an Update or Reset or Off the Lot, I think it may "adapt" poorly. Or perhaps it just takes a LOT longer to adapt than folks realize.

I also describe how to work around when it didn't behave or has been poorly adapted so that you can safely stay in ECO mode and readapt it.

Basically I'm saying I think my driving style, partly contributed to F'ing it up.

Mine now drives great in ECO Mode. And has for over a week and about 500 miles.

I have tried Sport mode like that, and it did squit. I think the "Adaptive" memories are per driving mode. It would make no sense to "Share" them.

I hardly think this is "Nothing New" or I think it would be all over the transmission threads.

TurboJB 10-23-2013 01:58 PM

Re: How to drive 2014 8-Speed 3.6L V6 in ECO Mode
 
My experience is very similar to yours MSWLOGO. Car is at 2500 Miles now and the shifting has improved over time. I didn't get the transmission upgrade yet and might hold off until a real good updated is released. In the beginning ECO mode was horrible and I got "rough shifts" from 1-2-1 occasionally. But over time I learned to work around or with the ECO mode, modulating throttle inputs accordingly. Now the trans "learned" my driving style and it is 10 times better then when I picked up the car (from Ziegler as well) I don't want to say it's perfect yet, ECO mode still reacts a bit slow every now and then, but as said, a lot better then when new.

So to conclude, I also believe that "personal driving style" (trying not to say driving habits :)) has a big impact how the trans shifts.

lstowell 10-23-2013 02:52 PM

Re: How to drive 2014 8-Speed 3.6L V6 in ECO Mode
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mswlogo (Post 914811)
This thread is NOT for whiners and is the reason why I did NOT put this under "Trouble Shooting".

This is for folks that want to make the best of what they currently have.

Believe me if there is a new Transmission update I will still be the first in line.

Some background:

When I first got my limited 3.6L V6 I really had a lot of discomfort with ECO mode. It even caused a minor accident (could have been major). I believe my Limited already had the first update (built Aug 10). It upshifted too fast and lagged, lagged on down shifting when already in 5th or 6th (under 40 mph). And when it did downshift it was whiplash and it tended to stay downshifted for what seemed like forever but was probably just a few seconds.

Non ECO mode drove great. I used it often for the first month or so.

I had tried the battery disconnect. And it never seemed to help. Not even for a while.

I got the September update "Rev-A".

Initially no difference, over a week it got real good and then as time went on it was back to how it was before update. Maybe a hair better.

So I had a hunch a lot of the issues are around the Adaptive Learning the transmission does. And probably why some people have no issues. Can I teach it to behave better for ME?

One thing I admit is, at the same time I've been trying to squeak the best MPG I can out of it. I have a very large "Carbon Footprint" and if I can prune it, I WILL. It's not $$$. So I do want ECO mode to work and it absolutely saves gas. So was it my "granny mode" driving that taught it to adapt poorly? Maybe. Can I reteach it?

So I decided to drive it modestly aggressive for a week and change the display from "Trip Computer". Within a few days it was driving VERY much like it does with ECO Mode off. I did disconnect the battery for grins, but I think that had little to do with it. I've disconnected it like 4 times before.

Now I wanted to go back to driving "Granny Mode". Would the misbehavior come right back? So far after a week or so it has not come back. It really is driving quite good. You can tell it still shifts fast from a stop but without uncomfortable lag. And it will go into 8th Early. Well that's how it gets the good MPG. But it's not annoying or unsafe to drive in ECO mode. Where as before it WAS !!

It's now driving nearly perfect in ECO mode. It doesn't lag (which is the root of most problems). I don't think I've gone back all the way to "Granny Mode". But close. Will it stay this way, who knows. I have had no temptation to shut eco mode off.

FYI, I've never had "Clunks" or what I would call "Hard Shifts". Some might call the downshifting to far a "Hard Shift". I don't. It was always smooth and graceful what ever it did right or wrong.

Some other things that might be happening.

1) Break in. I'm only at 3000 miles now.
2) Driver learning to "Adapt".

Regarding the Driver learning to "adapt". Some may consider this "broken" but it has helped quite a bit. When mildly accelerating (under approx. 40 mph) don't push the gas and hold it until it downshifts. That's when it would "over downshift". Push and hold for a second and then back off to where you were. It will smoothly downshift just 1 gear (maybe 2) then give it more gas if you want. It won't downshift further and that's all the power you often want. I realize this seems silly. But it works. I've done it so much now I don't even think about it. After I went through this whole learning process (driving aggressive for week) I don't think it's needed any more. I can push and hold it and it does what you expect. I can moderately down shift and it won't over down shift and won't get stuck in low gear. But it did help me get through it and allowed me to stay in ECO mode without whiplash even when it behaves badly. It's not needed that often.

Try experimenting.

Anyone else in the same boat? Discover similar things?

Again complainers, whiners, please vent in another thread.

Even on the V8, I find it works better to sort of ease into it in ECO mode and let the gears handle the rest--but apply a bit of pedal gently after it starts moving to pick up speed in traffic although not enough to make it downshift. If you stomp on it at all, it seems to want to check with the mommy crowd before it starts moving.

Dealer suggested that after the first couple hundred miles I should avoid squeal out starts, but don't be afraid to stand on it to help breakin, but also to convince the transmission not to upshift all the time. It actually seems to have bumped mileage a bit, and is now quite smooth--however I strongly suspect part of that was training my foot, not the transmission.

lstowell 10-23-2013 03:08 PM

Re: How to drive 2014 8-Speed 3.6L V6 in ECO Mode
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mswlogo (Post 915421)
I regularly get 28 MPG on highway and regulary get 24 City (Suburbs). I rarely see traffic. My Wife regularly gets 38 MPG (sometimes in low 40's) on her VW CC rated for 31 MPG. I know how to drive and take care of my cars.

If you read what I posted. I described how I "readapted" it. So that I can drive it any way I want now in ECO mode and it still behaves great. We'll see if it continues. But I think if you drive very conservatively, say after an Update or Reset or Off the Lot, I think it may "adapt" poorly. Or perhaps it just takes a LOT longer to adapt than folks realize.

I also describe how to work around when it didn't behave or has been poorly adapted so that you can safely stay in ECO mode and readapt it.

Basically I'm saying I think my driving style, partly contributed to F'ing it up.

Mine now drives great in ECO Mode. And has for over a week and about 500 miles.

I have tried Sport mode like that, and it did squit. I think the "Adaptive" memories are per driving mode. It would make no sense to "Share" them.

I hardly think this is "Nothing New" or I think it would be all over the transmission threads.

You are probably onto something.
For the first few hundred miles, I drove mine like Walter Mitty without his Xanax.
It wasn't as buttery smooth as I'd have liked it, or as it is now.

Had a different issue [xmas tree] and they pulled the battery and in handing it back the svc manager suggested I do the hot rodding since it already had a few miles on it.

Now, every now and then it gets an Italian Tune-up. Mainly for grins but it does decrud a bit.

mswlogo 10-23-2013 10:54 PM

Re: How to drive 2014 8-Speed 3.6L V6 in ECO Mode
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lstowell (Post 915900)

Dealer suggested that after the first couple hundred miles I should avoid squeal out starts, but don't be afraid to stand on it to help breakin, but also to convince the transmission not to upshift all the time.

That's the trick.

But I'm convinced it's not just "Shift Times" your teaching it (unless the display is not always telling the truth). I think it's changing engine timing and how lean the gas is too. Because I swear it shifts just as fast as it ever did from a stop but it still has more power in each of those gears and doesn't feel excessively laggy. So you have no temptation to kick it down or turn off eco mode.

We keep pointing at shift times because we can see and feel that. But I have a feeling there is even more going on with the engine to keep MPG up (which is does do amazingly well).

It also seems as soon as I posted this thread several other "Transmission Threads" started saying similar things. Like you have to wait 500 or even 5000 miles to fully "adapt it".

I'll bet the folks that average under 20 MPG have no transmission issue and the ones that average say above 23 MPG have had more issues.

tratpop 10-24-2013 03:24 PM

Re: How to drive 2014 8-Speed 3.6L V6 in ECO Mode
 
Funny seeing this post, i prefer driving a manual, but in any auto we have owned i always tried to learn what the trans. wants to do, adn figure otu how the two of us can get along.

Im guessing most are used to have 5 or 6 speeds and used to how much it usually takes to get from 1st to 3rd or 4th, and how throttle application would affect it. Now with 8 speeds all previous habits/experiences no longer apply.

lstowell 10-24-2013 04:11 PM

Re: How to drive 2014 8-Speed 3.6L V6 in ECO Mode
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tratpop (Post 916530)
Funny seeing this post, i prefer driving a manual, but in any auto we have owned i always tried to learn what the trans. wants to do, adn figure otu how the two of us can get along.

Im guessing most are used to have 5 or 6 speeds and used to how much it usually takes to get from 1st to 3rd or 4th, and how throttle application would affect it. Now with 8 speeds all previous habits/experiences no longer apply.

I think thats part of it. If the OP hasn't done a battery reset, I'd definitely consider that...

But I've definitely change the movement patterns of my right foot as I discover what it seems to reward and what it seems to penalize. Done optimally, it will change gears at least twice, more often three times across the typical intersection, and you have to watch the tach to see it happen--you won't feel it in the vehicle.

Done wrong, sometimes behaves much like a donkey.


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