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-   -   Knocking noise/big end failure? (http://www.jeepgarage.org/f190/knocking-noise-big-end-failure-70326.html)

Mazze 01-13-2014 12:23 AM

Knocking noise/big end failure?
 
Hi Guys, 1st post for me on this forum. Have a 2011 (classed as 2012 build) Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 litre Diesel Overland

Has anyone heard of problems with knocking noise in motor and/or possible big end failure?

MAZ

Swampy 01-13-2014 02:19 AM

1st I've heard of something like that. What are the symptoms?
Is the vehicle still under warranty and who has performed the vehicle servicing?

allypally 01-13-2014 02:24 AM

Re: Knocking noise/big end failure?
 
The diesels have a little noise when cold, but that generally goes away once the engine reaches normal operating temps.
I have not heard of any big end issues with these motors.

Mazze 01-13-2014 08:19 AM

Re: Knocking noise/big end failure?
 
It's still under warranty, trouble is Jeep Australia don't want to fix it under warranty. They say it did not have genuine oil or genuine filter (specs for both used are correct) Just trying to explore other options...............:mad::mad::mad:

Swampy 01-13-2014 08:24 AM

Re: Knocking noise/big end failure?
 
Specifically, what oil was put in it, and by who?

Incidentally, Jeep do not use Genuine Mopar oil either.

Here in the West the couple of dealers I spoke to either use Castrol Professional OEX or Penrite for the CRD.

allypally 01-13-2014 03:29 PM

Re: Knocking noise/big end failure?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazze (Post 959008)
It's still under warranty, trouble is Jeep Australia don't want to fix it under warranty. They say it did not have genuine oil or genuine filter (specs for both used are correct) Just trying to explore other options...............:mad::mad::mad:

I take it their rejection to your claim is in writing?
If not, then send them a letter, requesting they confirm the rejection of the warranty claim stating the reasons.
You then take that response to Fair Trading.

Providing the filter and oil was within the specifications of Jeep, they do not have a reason for rejection. They also need to prove that the oil or the filter caused the damage. You do not need to prove anything at this stage.

Mazze 01-13-2014 06:38 PM

Re: Knocking noise/big end failure?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by allypally (Post 959216)
I take it their rejection to your claim is in writing?
If not, then send them a letter, requesting they confirm the rejection of the warranty claim stating the reasons.
You then take that response to Fair Trading.

Providing the filter and oil was within the specifications of Jeep, they do not have a reason for rejection. They also need to prove that the oil or the filter caused the damage. You do not need to prove anything at this stage.

I asked the dealer to put it in writing via email which he has. The oil used and filter are within the specifications of Jeep. I am in the process of writing to Jeep Australia asking them to review their decision. They have not to date diagnosed the problem, had the vehicle for 28 days and all they have said is that its the oil and filter that has caused the problem - the vehicle has not been stripped down so how can they blame the oil and filter without knowing what's wrong? Seem to hitting the proverbial brick wall here.....:cool::cool::cool:

Swampy 01-13-2014 06:44 PM

Re: Knocking noise/big end failure?
 
So let me ask the question again.

Precisely, what oil was used in the engine and who did the servicing?

This is of utmost importance in regards to your claim and who pays.

Mazze 01-13-2014 08:43 PM

Re: Knocking noise/big end failure?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Swampy (Post 959307)
So let me ask the question again.

Precisely, what oil was used in the engine and who did the servicing?

This is of utmost importance in regards to your claim and who pays.

The Oil used was Syntech L 5W/30. This oil is fully synthetic and is suitable for diesel engines fitted with particulate filters(which ours has). I have it in writing from Otech (the supplier) that it meets SAE 5W/30 Low Ash Synthetic MB229.51 ACEA3, so it meets all the specs as outlined in our operating information manual..

My husband did the oil change. He is a fully apprenticed and qualified mechanic and has worked with cars, trucks, tractors and machinery for many years.

Does this clarify things Swampy?;););)

Swampy 01-13-2014 10:30 PM

Re: Knocking noise/big end failure?
 
It does and it doesn't.

I've never heard of that oil before and cannot find a datasheet that demostrates specification compliance.

At the end of the day, the issue are these..

Your Husband doing the oil change is of no issue unless he damaged something while performing the oil change and this is unlikely.

Jeep say that the oil does not meet spec. Either they have formed this view after sampling and testing the oil or have reviewed the datasheet for the oil, of which I can't find.

The manual also says that the oil must meet Chrysler MS-11106. If the oil does not than technically they have an out. The oil, if it does meet MB229.51 and ACEA C3 (I assume that C3 is what you meant as B3 is something different entirely) then it will likely meet MS-11106, but that doesn't matter if the test hasn't been done and it is not approved for this.

I would ask Jeep specifically why they think that the oil does not meet spec. You do not have to use genuine Mopar oil to meet warranty, only that it does comply with all specs.

If Jeep can demonstrate that the oil has caused the issue and / or does not meet spec, and the oil blender says it does, then this would be a claim against the oil blender.

First, you need to be 100% positive that the oil does meet spec on paper. (The actual product may not!) Can you get a data sheet from the oil company rather than just relying on their word or advice?

Unfortunately I think that the "out" from Chrysler may be the MS11106.

What will a new engine cost, assuming that it will be cheaper to replace than repair?

Also, what filter was used?

Mazze 01-14-2014 12:56 AM

Re: Knocking noise/big end failure?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Swampy (Post 959431)
It does and it doesn't.

I've never heard of that oil before and cannot find a datasheet that demostrates specification compliance.

At the end of the day, the issue are these..

Your Husband doing the oil change is of no issue unless he damaged something while performing the oil change and this is unlikely.

Jeep say that the oil does not meet spec. Either they have formed this view after sampling and testing the oil or have reviewed the datasheet for the oil, of which I can't find.

The manual also says that the oil must meet Chrysler MS-11106. If the oil does not than technically they have an out. The oil, if it does meet MB229.51 and ACEA C3 (I assume that C3 is what you meant as B3 is something different entirely) then it will likely meet MS-11106, but that doesn't matter if the test hasn't been done and it is not approved for this.

I would ask Jeep specifically why they think that the oil does not meet spec. You do not have to use genuine Mopar oil to meet warranty, only that it does comply with all specs.

If Jeep can demonstrate that the oil has caused the issue and / or does not meet spec, and the oil blender says it does, then this would be a claim against the oil blender.

First, you need to be 100% positive that the oil does meet spec on paper. (The actual product may not!) Can you get a data sheet from the oil company rather than just relying on their word or advice?

Unfortunately I think that the "out" from Chrysler may be the MS11106.

What will a new engine cost, assuming that it will be cheaper to replace than repair?

Also, what filter was used?

Yes Swampy, I did mean C3!!. I seem to be going round in circles with this oil. My local dealer (round trip 220ks) uses Castrol Edge Professional oe-x-5w-30. From what I can see from the data sheets for this oil, it does not have MS11106 approval, nor does the Fuchs Titan GTI Proflex that another dealer uses. If authorised dealers can use oil without MS11106 approval what can't the rest of us!!! I do have the data sheet for the fuel additive, it's Lubrizol 21303A, I also have the product information sheet for Syntech L 5w/30

The oil filter used was a Wesfil/Cooper one - WC0163 which is interchangeable with the 68109834AA Mopar .part.

It's ironic really, when the problem first started our jeep had a Mopar filter in it, go figure

Thanks for your help.

Swampy 01-14-2014 01:31 AM

Re: Knocking noise/big end failure?
 
Hi Mazze

Yes, the oils that the dealers use do not have MS11106 (unless they are using Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30). My understanding that the difference is that the oils that the dealer use have been approved for use by Jeep HQ.

I would still ask Jeep in what regard does the oil not meet spec. If they say MS11106, then I think that you're still screwed, regardless of what the dealers use. If they don't mention MS11106 and point to another oil property, then you need to get the oil blender/supplier involved. But first, ask them in what regard does the oil not meet spec.

Nowhere in the manual or service book is it stated that you must use Mopar oil.

Incidentally, what is the primary use of the vehicle?


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