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chefalan23 03-30-2010 10:58 AM

cam install
 
i cant find a cam intall ariticle for a 5.7 jeep anywhere online. how labor intesive is the job? i know these pushrod motors are supposed to be easier to do a cam swap than a OHC motor. i was quoted in the 1200 dollar range to do cam install on my sohc mustang, and was wondering if anyone had a guess as to what its going to be on a hemi. i was looking at the crazy spartan cam from interiamotorsports http://www.inertiamotorsports.com/camshafts.html ill be doing new valvesprings and pushrods too, so take that into account.

robpp 03-30-2010 11:17 AM

Re: cam install
 
sometimes valve springs also need changing with the cam. check with the maker.

regarding the swap, i would think its 6-8 hours for a very competent shop. a 'hemi' shop may be a bit quicker. with labor 100 an hour, i would think more like 6-8 hundo......

i think with the right tool for the springs, the heads are NOT removed. and that saves a ton of labor.

here is a 6.1 how to: thanks to the LX guys!
http://www.lxforums.com/board/showth...highlight=swap

FlyinRyan 03-30-2010 11:28 AM

Re: cam install
 
I have no experience with the Hemi, but from everything I have heard from the installers, they usually pull the heads off as it is less time-consuming in the long run. It can be done either way.

As far as a cam profile I would talk to the guys over at Sharadon Performance, or get a KRC cam.

Scottina06 03-30-2010 11:33 AM

Re: cam install
 
power ported performance....get some heads while your at it

John_R 03-30-2010 12:00 PM

Re: cam install
 
I imagine the cam comes with new lifters? I would replace those and depending on how many miles, may want to consider rocker arms as well (the valvetrain assembly parts wear onto each other in a pattern and they all differ eversomuch; it may or may not be an issue, but why take a chance. Being everything has roller/follwers these days it's probably not as much an issue as a flat tappet cam and old-fashioned rockers, but still...)

Most all OHV engines are about the same thing, as far as basic install, but you have different water pumps and other accessories that need to be rmoved to get to it. You'll probably need to remove the radiator(s)/coolers, so that you can pull the shaft stright out (IMPORTANT not to score the bearing surfaces as you reinstall)...You can probably get away without removing the intake manifold, but use a magnet or something to "drop" the lifters/pushrods down into the valleys. USE liberal amounts of cam lube and break it in by starting engine, hold revs ~2500 for about 10 minutes; change oil.

I would go ahead and replace the timing chain while you have it apart and get all pertaining gaskets (timing cover, etc.) and check to see how others degree their cam upon install (some are stright up (0 deg), others advanced/retarded, etc.

There's a lot more to it, but it's pretty basic as far as mechanical procedures go...just take your time, have all the tools and misc. items handy and have fun. As far as picking one out, remember to match your torque converter and other things (mainly heads) to it as a package, otherwise you'll have a dog with a big bark, but not much else :D

robpp 03-30-2010 12:04 PM

Re: cam install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleepy4.7 (Post 179045)
I have no experience with the Hemi, but from everything I have heard from the installers, they usually pull the heads off as it is less time-consuming in the long run. It can be done either way.

As far as a cam profile I would talk to the guys over at Sharadon Performance, or get a KRC cam.




sorry sleepy, your assumptions are not correct for the modern hemi. if you bothered to look at the links I posted you may have learned something. why would you add 2-4 hours labor if its not needed, plus the potential for extra issues is HUGE, head gaskets and new head bolts are expensive and all new are needed.



top the OP, NEVER USE KRC FOR ANYTHING! I can post the horror stories here if you need the read them, or try google.......

Sharadon is ALL 4.7 stuff I wouldnt recommend it.

use a vendor that handles the 5.7 and 6.1 motors. look at the LX site for ideas. HHP, PWR, FRI; those would be on my short list.

robpp 03-30-2010 12:08 PM

Re: cam install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John_R (Post 179075)
I imagine the cam comes with new lifters? I would replace those and depending on how many miles, may want to consider rocker arms as well (the valvetrain assembly parts wear onto each other in a pattern and they all differ eversomuch; it may or may not be an issue, but why take a chance. Being everything has roller/follwers these days it's probably not as much an issue as a flat tappet cam and old-fashioned rockers, but still...)

Most all OHV engines are about the same thing, as far as basic install, but you have different water pumps and other accessories that need to be rmoved to get to it. You'll probably need to remove the radiator(s)/coolers, so that you can pull the shaft stright out (IMPORTANT not to score the bearing surfaces as you reinstall)...You can probably get away without removing the intake manifold, but use a magnet or something to "drop" the lifters/pushrods down into the valleys. USE liberal amounts of cam lube and break it in by starting engine, hold revs ~2500 for about 10 minutes; change oil.

I would go ahead and replace the timing chain while you have it apart and get all pertaining gaskets (timing cover, etc.) and check to see how others degree their cam upon install (some are stright up (0 deg), others advanced/retarded, etc.

There's a lot more to it, but it's pretty basic as far as mechanical procedures go...just take your time, have all the tools and misc. items handy and have fun. As far as picking one out, remember to match your torque converter and other things (mainly heads) to it as a package, otherwise you'll have a dog with a big bark, but not much else :D


with all your suggestions and the cost, he might as well buy a 6.1 and shove it in there. or a forged 392 or even forged 5.7.

its not like he's opening a motor and adding 300 HP, a cam will net him about 40 HP at the rear wheel. NO NEED to update everything else. thats just a waste of money. needless to say, based on mileage, i may have done stuff like a water pump or hoses. but only if I am in the high mileage range.

John_R 03-30-2010 12:13 PM

Re: cam install
 
Sure you can "get by" without changing other things, but an engine is an air pump that needs to all work together in an efficient manner [basic: cam - heads - torque converter (or manual) - gearing; everything else supports those main items] and selection comes down to operating range and what kind of tractability you want.

He mentioned "I was looking at the crazy spartan cam from interiamotorsports ", so I was assuming it was a rather aggressive cam. I don't know the specs and if we're only talking about increasing the duration by a couple/few degrees @ .050" and maybe lift by .060" or something, then yeah, the stock components + bolt-ons/tuning would net decent gains. Beyond that, it opens up a lot of other things that need to be updated to run a good, have reliability and justify the cost.

yousmellfunnytoo 03-30-2010 12:35 PM

Re: cam install
 
I was quoted 450 for headers and a Cam install from a shop in the chicago land area.
They do a lot of 5.7 pushrod vette stuff and they pump out a lot of decent GM stuff and ive seen a few LX's from them

I've been looking into this too, but the list just keeps getting longer and the $$$ keep adding up.

Get a cam, need new rockers and lifter, may as well get complete heads, then a tune

FlyinRyan 03-30-2010 04:41 PM

Re: cam install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robpp (Post 179079)
sorry sleepy, your assumptions are not correct for the modern hemi. if you bothered to look at the links I posted you may have learned something. why would you add 2-4 hours labor if its not needed, plus the potential for extra issues is HUGE, head gaskets and new head bolts are expensive and all new are needed.



top the OP, NEVER USE KRC FOR ANYTHING! I can post the horror stories here if you need the read them, or try google.......

Sharadon is ALL 4.7 stuff I wouldnt recommend it.

use a vendor that handles the 5.7 and 6.1 motors. look at the LX site for ideas. HHP, PWR, FRI; those would be on my short list.

Assumptions? Excuse me ? I just said I have never done a cam install on a modern Hemi...But I've talked to plenty who have. Does that make me an expert? Not at all, but I'm not pulling stuff out of my a**.

Why would you add 2-4 hours labor to pull the heads? Simple, because that extra labor could easily end up being spent on swapping springs with the heads intact. Thats a valid reason for swapping springs in any of these motors. Theres not a whole lot of room.

I'm not at all saying that the springs are impossible to change out without pulling the heads- you are correct in that the right tools (some have even gone so far as to fabricate their own), it could be done. It's a matter of preference. The springs take all of 15 mins to change out with the head on a work bench. I know the majority of the installers for Inertia Motorsports choose to pull the heads to swap springs, if that tells you anything.

I wouldn't leave my truck with KRC, but I've used their cam profiles on friends' trucks, and they work. Their cams are built by Comp. I'm not going to deny that there have been horror stories, but my experience has been good, and their cams are solid performers. Thats not opinion, that is fact. The first LX to break into the 12's ran a KRC 210X camshaft. The first Ram to break into the 12's also ran one too. Coincidence? I dont think so.

Sharadon is NOT all 4.7 stuff, I dont know what you're talking about. They do alot of old-school Mopar work and also specialize in the modern Hemis. Their shop Ram is the fastest in the country. They have a "5.7/6.1" section right on their website.....

edit: The link above about an LX cam install is good, but it should be noted that most cams on a 6.1 do not require spring replacement. The 6.1 springs are vastly better than OEM 5.7 springs and are considered a cheap upgrade for the 5.7s.

jhawk 03-31-2010 08:27 AM

Re: cam install
 
Speed Inc. ? $450 for labor? Cam and headers, can't wait to see.


Quote:

Originally Posted by yousmellfunnytoo (Post 179119)
I was quoted 450 for headers and a Cam install from a shop in the chicago land area.
They do a lot of 5.7 pushrod vette stuff and they pump out a lot of decent GM stuff and ive seen a few LX's from them

I've been looking into this too, but the list just keeps getting longer and the $$$ keep adding up.

Get a cam, need new rockers and lifter, may as well get complete heads, then a tune


yousmellfunnytoo 03-31-2010 01:54 PM

Re: cam install
 
Yeah speed inc, but as i mentioned, I need to save my lunch money for the headers unless homies at ARH wanna cut me a deal.

I also dont know what cam I want, I know i can just get an MDS friendly one and not worry about springs and lifters but yeah we will see, i just wanted a quote


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