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2014 GC Totally $#@% dead

119783 Views 677 Replies 77 Participants Last post by  BobsWK2, 
amc2002
I really wish I could say in a public forum just how freaking livid I am right now. $41,500 sticker on this damn thing, I go to fill up the tank tonight just to take it out in the dark, because I haven't seen the blue lighted interior yet. I picked it up on Wednesday and it's got 300 miles on it.

I notice the lights are flickering. Weird. Don't think much of it. Pull out of the driveway, it jumps out of gear, engine revs. Damn it, I must have hit the gearshift or something. I still haven't gotten used to how it works. I keep putting it in neutral by accident. So I put it back in drive. Go down the street, come to a stop at the corner. Lights are flickering more. I figure, "let me shut it off and then turn it back on again." I shut it off. The damn thing is totally dead. No lights anywhere. I open the door. No lights. I get out. Walk around it. What the hell am I going to do now? I open the door. Lights are on. I figure, let me drive it back home, just down the street.

It starts up, lights are flickering again. Pops out of gear again. Eff it. I pull it to the side of the road. It dies. I'm not moving this thing an inch more. Chrysler can come pick it up and tow it back to the dealership.

Only, they won't.

Seems Chrysler Roadside Assistance will only tow it to the nearest dealer. Which in my case, just happens to be the dealer I decided not to purchase from because their dealer rating is terrible, and their BBB record is awful. We had gone in there on a whim, and later canceled an appointment for a test drive when we found this out. I told the salesperson it was nothing against him, we enjoyed speaking with him and thanked him for his time, but we just couldn't purchase a car from the dealership he worked for.

So this is where they want to tow my car. Not to the dealer 15 miles further. I'll have to pay out of pocket for that.

I said no thanks, and started to call AAA (which I have because of my 2002 Wrangler). Then I decided, no, I want Chrysler to handle this 100%.

Called Roadside again and they tell me I didn't purchase Roadside Assistance. I ask them doesn't it come with every Jeep? Not necessarily they say. I say I'm pretty sure the F&I woman would've tried to sell me on that if it wasn't. She asks when I bought the car. I said Wednesday. Ah, might not be in the system. How did the other guy get my record up? She wasn't sure.

So I give her a credit card. I'm paying the whole tab this time, not just the extra 15 miles. They will email me a receipt that I can bring to the dealer.

Tow truck driver says can't tow it tonight. They'll hold it and then it will go to the dealer on Monday morning. Lovely. I wonder where they're bringing it? Gave him a $20 and I hope that helps it find a safe spot wherever it is. I should ask the dealer for the $20 back as well.

So my wife had to cancel her trip tomorrow. Didn't even make it to 400 miles and it crapped the bed. Right now? I hate the damn thing. Will I ever be able to trust this thing? Probably just a ground somewhere, but this is NOT a good sign.

I'm fracking livid right now. This is my wife's DD. What if it had decided to jump out of gear and die on the highway with my 5-year-old on board?

I am so not OK right now.

UPDATE: Chrysler Roadside automated call -- Service is expected to arrive within 20 minues. Um, I've been back at the house for 20 minutes already. Classic.

"Based on your roadside assistance today, would you recommend Chrysler products to your friends and family."

Guess what I answered to that question.
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padgett
Being odd, I would have just felt for a hot terminal (most likely on the battery. Bet it turns out to be a bad connection. With that low milage it might even be a badly crimped cable but suspect it is a nut that has backed off or was cross threaded initially.

Am surprised the tow truck driver did not check the basic connections., I have AAA+ (100 miles towing) and is something they always ask. Also they tow to my house if I ask them, no charge.

ps from the description (most flickering when at idle or stopped) my money is on the battery circuit. Could even be a bad battery and I would not blame CJF for that, I just had a big 2009 marine Optima fail.
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padgett
Just some thoughts: with an alternator, the main control is the battery itself. If anyone has heard of "ELI the ICE man" then you know that an alternator is made up of magnetic fields. If at a high rate of charge at say 14v and you disconnect the battery, the field does not collapse instantly and you can get surges.

With a 55A GM 10DN I have seen 200v on a battery disconnect. The good news is that if the dash stayed steady then it probably had a good circuit to the battery. The headlamps flickering could indicate they did not.

When the trans popped, did the lever actually move from drive to neutral ? Or did the transmission seem to shift to neutral (two different issues). Also did the headlights flicker all the time or only at idle ? Was the a/c or heater on ? (increased load).

Must admit everything sounds like a bad connection or battery except for the jumping out of gear particularly if the lever moved.

BTW everything on until the starter engages then everything goes black is common with a bad battery or connection.
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padgett
OK. First - with erratic power, the electrics can do *anything*. Sounds like on loss of power, the trans defaults to neutral.

Second, the major current draw is the starter to battery and that circuit sounds good. I would look to power/ground connections to the ITSM first and then the body/engine connections. With multiple failures, faulty grounds are more likely than power circuits. At this point a wiring diagram is essential.

Now let's see what the dealer says.
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padgett
a) Don't think it is a battery connection - apparently when the starter would engage, it cranked fine. That makes it in the soleniod circuit. There is usually a direct main power and ground connection to the starter motor.
b) I'd need to see a wiring diagram and look for something common (probably a ground) between the ABS, dash, and solenoid circuit. It is interesting that the only code set was for the ABS - do you know what the code was ?
c) There are several ABS codes for both low voltage and "implausible" readings that could result from a bad ground or a short.
d) Hopefully in the near furture CJF will release a complete set of wiring diagrams to suppliment the Service Manual on CD.
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padgett
Grounds can be very tricky, under the right circumstances an alternator can put over 200v on a circuit and let the smoke out. Also electricity will find an alternate path if a normal ground is blocked and sometimes that is through something else (like an ABS module).

Good for you that you have a new ABS module but have to wonder if that was just how the bad ground was showing up. Too many (not just dealers) just throw parts at problems and hope they go away.

Fortunately aircraft are professionally maintained. Was at Sun'n'Fun at Lakeland Linder a few weeks ago and saw many aircraft over a half century old that are still being flown. Guess I have always looked at automotive maintenance the same way.

I suspect a bad ground caused the ABS to fail and not the other way round.
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padgett
C2101-17 High Battery Voltage (my stuff says above 16.5v for 100 msec)
C2112A-16 (C212A-16 ?) Low System Voltage
U0100-00 Lost ECM Communication
U0125-00 Lost Accelleration Sensor Module Communication

A surge - C2101 - could certainly take out a module

I would stronglly suggest that CJF perform a ground circuit tightness check on new cars (perhaps QC is supposed to) since a loose ground connection can cause very expensive damage.

Once CJF decides to sell owners a complete wiring manual I will probably be able to say which connection to check.

ps I know the documentation for the FSM says "IT DOES NOT CONTAIN THE TRADITIONAL WIRING DIAGRAM INFORMATION It does contain the wiring information relavent to a diagnostic trouble code (DTC) in the diagnostic procedure for the specific DTC." but when the diagnosis says " Refer to the appropriate wiring information." and it is not there and I cannot buy one, it is annoying.
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padgett
FWIW intermittants are some of the hardest problems to find. Am odd but would have an OBDII device and a tablet running Torque monitoring everything. Dealer should be doing the same and giving you a different car until they can determine exactly what is happening. May take Chrysler factory involvement.

If it were me, I'd call Customer Assisance, explain that it cannot be considered safe, and open a case directly.
1-877-IAM-JEEP
(1-877-426-5337)
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padgett
Personally would think that with this documented history of sudden power loss, CJF corporate lawyers would be falling over themselves to get you a new car (if they know about it).

The problem is that while aparently the ABS module was the only one to completely fail (any new codes this time ?), we do not know what else was stressed (I have seen bad connections cause over 200V surges in 12v systems which is Not Good for electronics) and will fail. Do know what would happen if something like this occured in an airframe & would not be "return to service & hope for the best" (am somewhat fanatical about SOF).

Do agree that the GC is one of the safer cars to be in should something happen, one of the reasons I bought one and my '12 has had zero problems (is very well instrumented though). It does exactly what I want.
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padgett
Just a suggestion but I would send a registered (return receipt) letter to:
Chrysler Group Customer Care
P.O. Box 21-8004
Auburn Hills, MI 48321-8004

Outlining exactly what has happened, how your feeling of safety for your family has been affected, the lack of trust for the electrical system, and request the car either have the complete electrical system replaced or a replacement car.

Phone calls are usually not worth the paper they are printed on.
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padgett
Be interesting to see what codes came up this time.
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padgett
Look back at post #56. I suspect that these are all steming from the suspected power surge that took out your ABS (and caused that overvoltage code).

From that standpoint it could all be the same issue, it is just showing up in multiple places (and some codes may be hiding others). One way would be to find out exactly which grounds were found to be loose and what circuits are affected by them. That will take access to the wiring diagrams for your vehicle.

I would not blame your dealer entirely, they probably are not taught what can happen when a ground surge cascades through a system, but the CJF engineers should. Think of it as your own local EMP.
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padgett
P1B14 and P007E: I cannot find those codes in my '12 manual they may be new. In general P-powertrain 0-standard 1-CJF specific.

Did find "P007e-charge Air Cooler Temperature Sensor Circuit Intermittent/erratic" on the web but that seems to be for a diesel - which engine do you have ? Did not find P1B14, could it have been P1814 Transmission 4-Wheel Drive Mode Select ?

Just my opinion but I suspect you are seeing cascading failures stemming from a surge and not unconnected failures.

That said it is entirely possible that the Powertrain controller is now confused and may need to be reflashed. Have to keep in mind that power surges particularly due to ground faults are unpredictable. The Powertrain controller should be validating itself during POST but I have no insight into the actual programming.
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padgett
Showing a "B" for an "8" might be a sign that the PCM has issues. Good coding practice either avoids possible confusion (B/8, 0/O, l/1) or makes strong distinctions (some carmakers do not use Alphas in trouble codes though A-F are hex digits). Also I have seen displays that make it hard to tell a "1" from a "7".

That is one of the things I like about Torque ($5 app for Android, use with a $20 BT dongle). I can send test results home via e-mail from either the Tablet I use for lots of things or from my smart phone & read at my leisure.

One of the things I send myself periodically is standard test #6 which is quite comprehensive and includes both current and average misfires for each cyl (have a '12 Pentastar):

MID:$a3 TID:$0b
EWMA Misfire counts (average) for last 10 drive cycles - Misfire Cylinder 2 Data
Max: 65,535 Count Min: 0 Count
Test result value: 0 Count
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padgett
I just leave the dongle in place & when I get in, select the Album I want to hear, start that and switch to the engine instrumentation readout (up to 17 parameters simultaneously). I like to know what is happening. If something goes wrong, now have the whole service manual available to tell what happenened & how to fix.
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padgett
Unfortnately it appears the legal avenue may be necessary to "get their attention". I am just surprised that CJF has not reacted to their potential liability should an event occur given that the issue is documented but the extent is unknown. Suspect your lawyer will remind them.

I would also consult with an attorney as just "trading it in" for a different make without full disclosure could open you for liability.
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padgett
Have you let the lessor know what is going on ? I suspect they are the "owner of record".
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padgett
What I am seeing is a market for an automotive surge protection system. Would be interesting to see if there is any correlation between things like the higher capacity alternators and the electronic failure rates in '14s. Or possibly a changed ground location. Or a smaller guage wire.

Back in the day I remember race cars having the Delcotronic ignition would mount two control units on the dash with an A-B switch. When electronics gets complex, redundancy is good.

Do think a lot of electronics-related failures and strange actions are being reported on '14s. Al least heads are not self-destructing.
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padgett
"two pages of codes" What were the codes please - any like P056x, P064x, P065x (x being any numeric digit), B0210. All relate to improper voltages.
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padgett
If someone can't be bothered with what the codes are then we can't be of much help. Google is helpful for the generic OBD codes (P0xxx) but not as much on the CJF specials (P1xxx or any other letter).

For example P0563 is "system voltage high" but what you won't find is the spec points: voltage exceeds 15.75v or is 1v above set value for 10 seconds & will reset the MIL light after three good trips but remains in history.

Other codes set if above 16.5v for 100 ms. Precicely which codes tell a lot about the system.

This is a lot better than the aulden daze when OBD and plugs were different for every mfr and an OTC-2000 (my choice) had a different cartridge for every car line and year (toward the end did have all-in-ones). Have had OBD-II since 1996 now and is what makes inexpensive readers and software possible.
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padgett
Hope it works out for you, generally people post here because CJF has not been much help.
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