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2014 GC Totally $#@% dead

119790 Views 677 Replies 77 Participants Last post by  BobsWK2, 
amc2002
I really wish I could say in a public forum just how freaking livid I am right now. $41,500 sticker on this damn thing, I go to fill up the tank tonight just to take it out in the dark, because I haven't seen the blue lighted interior yet. I picked it up on Wednesday and it's got 300 miles on it.

I notice the lights are flickering. Weird. Don't think much of it. Pull out of the driveway, it jumps out of gear, engine revs. Damn it, I must have hit the gearshift or something. I still haven't gotten used to how it works. I keep putting it in neutral by accident. So I put it back in drive. Go down the street, come to a stop at the corner. Lights are flickering more. I figure, "let me shut it off and then turn it back on again." I shut it off. The damn thing is totally dead. No lights anywhere. I open the door. No lights. I get out. Walk around it. What the hell am I going to do now? I open the door. Lights are on. I figure, let me drive it back home, just down the street.

It starts up, lights are flickering again. Pops out of gear again. Eff it. I pull it to the side of the road. It dies. I'm not moving this thing an inch more. Chrysler can come pick it up and tow it back to the dealership.

Only, they won't.

Seems Chrysler Roadside Assistance will only tow it to the nearest dealer. Which in my case, just happens to be the dealer I decided not to purchase from because their dealer rating is terrible, and their BBB record is awful. We had gone in there on a whim, and later canceled an appointment for a test drive when we found this out. I told the salesperson it was nothing against him, we enjoyed speaking with him and thanked him for his time, but we just couldn't purchase a car from the dealership he worked for.

So this is where they want to tow my car. Not to the dealer 15 miles further. I'll have to pay out of pocket for that.

I said no thanks, and started to call AAA (which I have because of my 2002 Wrangler). Then I decided, no, I want Chrysler to handle this 100%.

Called Roadside again and they tell me I didn't purchase Roadside Assistance. I ask them doesn't it come with every Jeep? Not necessarily they say. I say I'm pretty sure the F&I woman would've tried to sell me on that if it wasn't. She asks when I bought the car. I said Wednesday. Ah, might not be in the system. How did the other guy get my record up? She wasn't sure.

So I give her a credit card. I'm paying the whole tab this time, not just the extra 15 miles. They will email me a receipt that I can bring to the dealer.

Tow truck driver says can't tow it tonight. They'll hold it and then it will go to the dealer on Monday morning. Lovely. I wonder where they're bringing it? Gave him a $20 and I hope that helps it find a safe spot wherever it is. I should ask the dealer for the $20 back as well.

So my wife had to cancel her trip tomorrow. Didn't even make it to 400 miles and it crapped the bed. Right now? I hate the damn thing. Will I ever be able to trust this thing? Probably just a ground somewhere, but this is NOT a good sign.

I'm fracking livid right now. This is my wife's DD. What if it had decided to jump out of gear and die on the highway with my 5-year-old on board?

I am so not OK right now.

UPDATE: Chrysler Roadside automated call -- Service is expected to arrive within 20 minues. Um, I've been back at the house for 20 minutes already. Classic.

"Based on your roadside assistance today, would you recommend Chrysler products to your friends and family."

Guess what I answered to that question.
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amc2002
Blame will be assigned shortly -- to a battery, to Chrysler, to whomever. I will talk to the service desk first thing Monday morning.

As for the TSB, there were no out of the ordinary warning lights on the dash, which is part of what concerned me. The dash was solid, no flickering. The flickering was from the headlamps only. Then the vehicle would pop out of drive and into neutral (better than popping into drive FROM neutral I guess), then when I tried shutting the vehicle off, it died completely. Might be the same issue, might not I guess. I guess it could be a weird battery issue, but the Jeep started totally fine, no indication of anything wrong with the battery.

My hope also is that it's a ground somewhere. What I don't want to happen is to have it be an "issue not found" and it ends up in my driveway with no diagnosis.
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padgett
Just some thoughts: with an alternator, the main control is the battery itself. If anyone has heard of "ELI the ICE man" then you know that an alternator is made up of magnetic fields. If at a high rate of charge at say 14v and you disconnect the battery, the field does not collapse instantly and you can get surges.

With a 55A GM 10DN I have seen 200v on a battery disconnect. The good news is that if the dash stayed steady then it probably had a good circuit to the battery. The headlamps flickering could indicate they did not.

When the trans popped, did the lever actually move from drive to neutral ? Or did the transmission seem to shift to neutral (two different issues). Also did the headlights flicker all the time or only at idle ? Was the a/c or heater on ? (increased load).

Must admit everything sounds like a bad connection or battery except for the jumping out of gear particularly if the lever moved.

BTW everything on until the starter engages then everything goes black is common with a bad battery or connection.
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amc2002
padgett said:
Just some thoughts: with an alternator, the main control is the battery itself. If anyone has heard of "ELI the ICE man" then you know that an alternator is made up of magnetic fields. If at a high rate of charge at say 14v and you disconnect the battery, the field does not collapse instantly and you can get surges.

With a 55A GM 10DN I have seen 200v on a battery disconnect. The good news is that if the dash stayed steady then it probably had a good circuit to the battery. The headlamps flickering could indicate they did not.

When the trans popped, did the lever actually move from drive to neutral ? Or did the transmission seem to shift to neutral (two different issues). Also did the headlights flicker all the time or only at idle ? Was the a/c or heater on ? (increased load).

Must admit everything sounds like a bad connection or battery except for the jumping out of gear particularly if the lever moved.

BTW everything on until the starter engages then everything goes black is common with a bad battery or connection.
Click to expand...
Lever did not move from what I remember. The transmission just popped out of gear. The headlights flickered while driving so it was not just at idle. I believe the ac was off. Car started fine. Flickered headlights, then popped out of gear. After that, first time I shut it off and everything went black. I couldn't even put the flashers on. Car was in the middle of the road in the dark with no flashers. Ugh. Walked home. Came back and car seemed fine. Started up fine, noticed headlights flickering and then the same procedure happened.

Thanks.
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padgett
OK. First - with erratic power, the electrics can do *anything*. Sounds like on loss of power, the trans defaults to neutral.

Second, the major current draw is the starter to battery and that circuit sounds good. I would look to power/ground connections to the ITSM first and then the body/engine connections. With multiple failures, faulty grounds are more likely than power circuits. At this point a wiring diagram is essential.

Now let's see what the dealer says.
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amc2002
OK, well here's something I didn't expect. Dealer says "faulty ABS module." ??

I ask, "so *all that* was caused by a faulty ABS module?" He says "that's what the code was for, so we're replacing it, then we just have to road test it." I asked him to check all the ground locations, especially under the ECU and by the frame rail, he said they would. Don't know if I believe him, but we'll see.

He said it's on order, will take three days to come in.

Meanwhile, we're in a new(er) Jeep Liberty, which we're fine with.

This is not inspiring me with confidence, but we'll see what happens.

EDIT: My guess is that the ABS code could be a symptom of something else. Even, perhaps, a bad ground. Thoughts? It seems to be that instead of some kind of diagnosis here, they just read the codes and are popping in a new part. But I could most certainly be wrong.

Also, a bit of good news, Jeep corporate has contacted me about my post about this on their facebook page. I gave them my info and hopefully this will at least lead to them paying for my tow to the dealer.
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4jeepdiesel
I haven't read all the posts but this is definitely a bad ground... most likely very close to the battery to wipe everything out. It could simply be your (-) cable is a little loose on the battery.

That being said, I would also be on the brink of snapping if this happened to me.
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amc2002
Thanks. Based on everyone's input here, even if I get it back and it's totally fine, I will be checking the two ground locations mentioned and the battery cable to make sure.

Really appreciated everyone. I know it's not that big of a deal and I'm FREAKING OUT and THROWING STUFF, but it's just an annoyance I didn't have time for, nor did I expect it from a brand new vehicle.

So thanks...
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wjs81866
I have (2) 2011's and haven't had any serious issues, just normal stuff but that was after I bought them for the most part.

There is nothing more frustrating than spending that much money and having it die on you. I had a boat that died first time out; it was VERY frustrating.

Good luck; I loves ours and I think (Once you are past the BS) you will too.'
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amc2002
I'm sure I will love it too. I already miss it, and on Saturday night, I $#@%-ing HATED it.

Here is what I just sent to the "facebook" contact at Jeep corporate. I hope he can get it up the chain...

-------------------------

The dealership is telling me that the issue is a "faulty ABS module." What I would love to do is get information from one of Jeep's technicians why a faulty ABS module would cause popping out of gear, flickering headlamps, and a completely dead vehicle where you can't even turn on the hazard flashers. Does the Jeep "reboot" when it detects a failure like this? Because that's what it seemed to do. Here is what would satisfy me right now:
1) Explanation of how the ABS system works on a technical level and how it could cause the vehicle to exhibit the symptoms it did.
2) Assurance that Jeep will go through my entire vehicle front to back for quality control issues
3) Reimbursement of my $131 + $20 tip ($151 total) out of pocket for the tow to Town & Country Jeep in Levittown from near my home in Farmingville.

I hope Jeep can provide these three things for me. Thank you.
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padgett
a) Don't think it is a battery connection - apparently when the starter would engage, it cranked fine. That makes it in the soleniod circuit. There is usually a direct main power and ground connection to the starter motor.
b) I'd need to see a wiring diagram and look for something common (probably a ground) between the ABS, dash, and solenoid circuit. It is interesting that the only code set was for the ABS - do you know what the code was ?
c) There are several ABS codes for both low voltage and "implausible" readings that could result from a bad ground or a short.
d) Hopefully in the near furture CJF will release a complete set of wiring diagrams to suppliment the Service Manual on CD.
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amc2002
Yes, it cranked fine. I don't know what the code was, and the dealership, while being very polite, has pretty much been only as communicative as they have had to be. I kind of got "yessed" when asking questions.

I don't have a lot of faith in their service department so far, but I suppose I could ask to speak to a technician. My wife said it was like stepping back in time in there. The whole place was whisper quiet, and instead of entering my issue in a computer, the service desk guy wrote it down by hand on the work ticket. I didn't notice if he even had a computer.

I don't want to be too pushy right off the bat with the service dept. I think it's serious enough that Jeep corporate is aware of this now. I'll let them do their jobs.

But I will say this -- if I get this rig back and this happens again? I am going to raise holy hell.

UPDATE: Just got word back on the Book-of-Face. Jeep "Top Care" team has all the info on my case. Not sure what that means yet, but I will try to be patient and not throw stuff. ;)
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amc2002
Just got off the phone with Chrysler corporate after they initiated contact from my Facebook post (anyone having serious Jeep issues, I would encourage you to post there as it's public, and you'll be contacted by their customer care). The rep listened and proposed a solution I am happy with as far as the inconvenience and frustration I experienced that night.

He did made it clear that I have to push the dealership for communication and that if I am not satisfied with their efforts, that each dealership has key people and contacts at Chrysler to address any issues I might be having with the vehicle and that I should push them to pursue those avenues. I am fine with that. I probably need to be a little more assertive with them, but for now I want to give them a chance to do their jobs -- which right now, is replacing the ABS module according to codes the vehicle threw. We shall see.

If, after this, the issues have not been solved to my satisfaction, he would certainly like to hear about it and will follow up at that point, but for now, he was hoping this was a "one-off" issue that would be taken care of by the dealer.

So, happy with Jeep Corporate so far, now I'm looking for the dealer to step up.
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amc2002
Got the Jeep back from the dealer this morning. I really do like this dealership so far, it has been pretty good experiences all around. It's behaving like a new vehicle again. The service guy said they tightened up some electrical grounds and replaced the ABS module. I'm going to cross my fingers and hope that yes, this was just a bad part and maybe a poor ground. So, I'd give the dealership an A on sales, an A on service, and an A for Jeep corporate on attending to my issue. I may revise later if something else comes up, but for now, I'm going to expect the best.
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bill_de
:thumbsup:

Good to hear!


.
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padgett
Grounds can be very tricky, under the right circumstances an alternator can put over 200v on a circuit and let the smoke out. Also electricity will find an alternate path if a normal ground is blocked and sometimes that is through something else (like an ABS module).

Good for you that you have a new ABS module but have to wonder if that was just how the bad ground was showing up. Too many (not just dealers) just throw parts at problems and hope they go away.

Fortunately aircraft are professionally maintained. Was at Sun'n'Fun at Lakeland Linder a few weeks ago and saw many aircraft over a half century old that are still being flown. Guess I have always looked at automotive maintenance the same way.

I suspect a bad ground caused the ABS to fail and not the other way round.
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amc2002
Thanks. My suspicion, based on other posts here in JG, was a ground as well. I will take the service manager at his word that he checked this, but I will verify what I can this weekend as well.
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amc2002
So I just got a look at the service ticket. Even though the service manager took everything down by hand, he did enter everything into the ticket.

Cause: Perform diagnosis for codes C2101-17, C2112A-16, U0100-00, U0125-00 - internal failure of ABS module
Correction: Check ABS Circuit, TSB's, All grounds, Remove/replace ABS module, clear codes, road test

So it looks like they went through everything. I wonder what the codes are for though? I haven't been able to find anything online corresponding to those. I guess they are specific Chrysler codes and not OBD-related?

UPDATE: Looks like from the codes I was able to find online (the first four seem to be ODB), that battery voltage was high, communication was lost with a bunch of sensors -- ECU, ABS, etc., ABS detected system voltage was above 17 volts. Would seem to indicate a grounding issue, maybe alternator cable or something. So @padgett, your hypothesis seems spot on. Probably a bad ground that killed the ABS module. Interesting. I wonder if they'll eventually have a TSB for this, and start checking all the 2014's at the dealers? Seems to be a few of us here who have run into this.
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padgett
C2101-17 High Battery Voltage (my stuff says above 16.5v for 100 msec)
C2112A-16 (C212A-16 ?) Low System Voltage
U0100-00 Lost ECM Communication
U0125-00 Lost Accelleration Sensor Module Communication

A surge - C2101 - could certainly take out a module

I would stronglly suggest that CJF perform a ground circuit tightness check on new cars (perhaps QC is supposed to) since a loose ground connection can cause very expensive damage.

Once CJF decides to sell owners a complete wiring manual I will probably be able to say which connection to check.

ps I know the documentation for the FSM says "IT DOES NOT CONTAIN THE TRADITIONAL WIRING DIAGRAM INFORMATION It does contain the wiring information relavent to a diagnostic trouble code (DTC) in the diagnostic procedure for the specific DTC." but when the diagnosis says " Refer to the appropriate wiring information." and it is not there and I cannot buy one, it is annoying.
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amc2002
So the Jeep seemed fine all weekend. I ran a few errands with it, no problem. This morning, my wife goes to take my 5-year-old to a doctor's appointment and she calls me in a panic. All the lights in the dash went out, and the windshield wiper starts going on. I said get to a safe place and shut it off. Before she can do that, it dies in the middle of the road. She is understandably totally freaking out. We're both still a little raw from the accident a month ago.

She finally gets the car restarted and got to the side of the road, but she's not in a safe place. I am 30 miles away hearing this. My stepson coincidentally had a doctor's appointment 20 minutes later as the same doctor, so he got behind the Jeep and put his flashers on, and eventually they decided to move it a few hundred feet into a parking lot. It was still acting weird.

When I got there, I looked around for the grounds I could see that were mentioned here. Alternator didn't seem to have a loose ground from what I could tell. Everything seemed tight. Maybe stuff needs to be removed, cleaned, then re-tightened? Why would the Jeep be fine for days and then suddenly start freaking out again? THAT is what makes this such a nightmare.

I just contacted Chrysler. 338 miles on the Jeep, dead twice in the middle of the road, I don't want the car back. I just don't trust it. No way I'd be able to take a trip in this thing out of state and have any belief we would make it back safely.
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markp99
Yikes!
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