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Discussion Starter #1
...and now the French are part of Fiat....
Well, Fiat is larger than PSA, but they merged, didn't buy them out like Chrysler....
Back in the day, when AMC was dying, the merged with Renault (which was taken over by Peugeot after AMC died and Chrysler bought Jeep) many Jeeper's had lots of problems with their Renix fuel injection / engine management systems that came from Renault....
I think Renault became independent again and is no longer part of Peugeot....
Oh, and apparently PSA must think everyone knows what PSA means, cause what the acronym means isn't anywhere on their website or litterature...
I guess if you didn't speak French, they didn't think you'd know what it means, I had to search but found...
Peugeot Société Anonyme

Best I can tell, Société Anonyme is French for Corporation or LLC.....
Part of PSA is some of the lesser know French/German/British Brands.... Opel, Citroën, DS and Vauxhall
 

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This is bad news. Peugeot in France is like Fiat in Italy, cheap crappy little cars that are are loved by their countrymen.
Can't see it being a good thing in North America, we have higher standards. I wonder if Peugeot will use it a as step to push their brand here, if so it will fail like Fiat has.
 

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brings to mind the Cartalk credits: Eustace L. Emmons, Leader of The Former Peugeot Dealers of America Support Group
 

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Might as well have every country in the world as well as Amazon, Google, uSoft and Walmart have a chunk in the Jeep brand.
I agree with this being bad news. The goofy knob transmission shifter for one is just about a sure bet.
Only hope is that our USA engineers/designers have the cojones to overrule some of those wacky European auto designers.

Those good old days when Chrysler was Chrysler pardon the rust.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Those good old days when Chrysler was Chrysler pardon the rust.
Well, on a positive note, Chrysler's don't rust anymore, well no more than other brands.....;)

Don't take that the wrong way, I agree...
It all went to pot after Chrysler came back from near failure in the 70's under Iacocca, they got so good (and efficient at building small FWD cars) they were flush with cash and ready to capitalize on it to step up operations into being a bigger more prestigious manufacturer......
Then the CEO, Eaton, and the board sold out to Daimler, for huge fat paychecks and Chrysler has been the whipping boy of foreign companies ever since, except for a short stint under a venture capital firm.

Iacocca got investors together and tried to do a hostile take-over Chrysler before the leadership sold itself to Daimler, he knew what was going on, but couldn't raise more money than the German Giant.....
 

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Some under the brands of PSA (which, as a poster said correctly is Peugeot S.A. - or Peugeot Limited) are very storied brands. Citroen, with their famous DS which incorporated many technologies far ahead of their time - the adaptive suspension and lighting that "steered" around turns - or the 2CV, the car that looked like it was made out of sardine cans and brought mobility to generations. Opel/Vauxhall was, of course, the European branch of GM that built lots of solid cars.

Done properly, this can be a boon to all of the combined companies. While we see the French cars as quirky here in North America, the truth is that this group of manufacturers has a wealth of engineering experience that can be of great benefit.
 

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Some under the brands of PSA (which, as a poster said correctly is Peugeot S.A. - or Peugeot Limited) are very storied brands. Citroen, with their famous DS which incorporated many technologies far ahead of their time - the adaptive suspension and lighting that "steered" around turns - or the 2CV, the car that looked like it was made out of sardine cans and brought mobility to generations. Opel/Vauxhall was, of course, the European branch of GM that built lots of solid cars.

Done properly, this can be a boon to all of the combined companies. While we see the French cars as quirky here in North America, the truth is that this group of manufacturers has a wealth of engineering experience that can be of great benefit.
When I lived in Germany in the early 70's, the Citroen DS was a coveted vehicle. The 2CV is definitely one of the ugliest cars ever made. I had an Opel Rallye with the 1.8 liter engine and it was quite capable on the Autobahn. However, I wouldn't buy any of those brands today.
 

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I remember when you bought a Chrysler Product and it was a well made vehicle. My parents always owned Chrysler Vehicle. Any Chrysler product always ran circles around Ford and or GM products. They were dependable and you had a warranty problem they fixed right now. Now it seems they want to deny warranty repairs.
There was a time when you bought a vehicle you got all of the manuals, today you buy a new vehicle if you want a paper copy of the owners manual you have to buy or download it off the internet. What a bunch of Bovine Excrement that is.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I remember when you bought a Chrysler Product and it was a well made vehicle. My parents always owned Chrysler Vehicle. Any Chrysler product always ran circles around Ford and or GM products. They were dependable and you had a warranty problem they fixed right now. Now it seems they want to deny warranty repairs.
There was a time when you bought a vehicle you got all of the manuals, today you buy a new vehicle if you want a paper copy of the owners manual you have to buy or download it off the internet. What a bunch of Bovine Excrement that is.
Congrats, you're one of the dozen that have actually noticed..... .....I've found cars in the junkyard with 100's of thousands of miles on them and the O.M. still in the shrink wrap in the glove box..... ....On the internet and simply conversations you can tell people don't even think to open their O.M. and read to answer their questions.... ....people simply refuse to read their O.M. so can you blame the manufacturers for not putting them in the glove box anymore?

Actually, there is a note in the glove box with a phone number, its says if you're the first owner of the vehicle, you just have to call the number and they will send you a paper copy of the O.M. for free. All subsequent owners have to pay for it. Of course anyone can download an electronic copy for free. They also include a "Quick Start Guide" booklet that has more information in it than any "typical" driver would need.

And to make things worse, if you read the latest O.M.'s, they are clearly phoning it in, they are horrible, I doubt the people writing them even understand how the system works, cause they utterly fail at explaining it.... ....they use different terms for the same equipment, peppered all over the manual, sometimes even on the same page.... ...they don't identify all the servicing needs, often just referring you to see your local dealership for your needs....

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, its the driving public that lets them get away with it, only a statistically insignificant amount of people even notice they stop putting O.M.'s in the glovebox, so what's stopping them from continuing?

Its the same thing with the ridiculous software user rights all the manufacturer's maintain, you don't have the right to all the operational information of the software in the modules you've purchased as part of the vehicle? I'm not saying you have unlimited rights to the software, I'm saying like any other software, you have rights to see all the information the software produces... ...the Auto manufacturers say you have no right to any of the information produced by the software, less anything displayed on the dash, and OBDII (but that's only because the government forces them to make that available to you).... ....if people really understood what they were doing, they would be outraged....
 

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Oh
We forgot you can now read the OM thru your U-Connect Radio. I'd rather have the printed manual in my hands so I bought 1 of them from Fiat Chrysler America, and requested the free copy. Got both of them one is on my table by my recliner in the house and the other one is in the vehicle. Funny thing though I still have my 2016 JGC OM and when you look up something about the Start Stop feature it's on basically the exact same page number in the 2016 OM. And I got those for free. Also there is a guy on e-Bay selling them, the OM's

Also if somebody is looking for a 2016 OM PM me and I will send it to you.
 

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I was initially disappointed that my new WK2 did not have an owner's manual hard copy in the glove compartment like with all of my previous new vehicles i've bought over the years.
But you know what, i downloaded the manual and its at my PC's keyboard finger tips since i use my PC at least a couple times a day. I can search the pdf file to instantly find what i was looking for.

Myself at the end of the day, i'd rather relax and watch TV with beer in hand rather then reading a voluminous hard copy of an owner's manual. By the way i started to actually read my F150's hard copy manual and it ended up being as a cure for insomnia.

I was also disappointed that my new WK2 did not include a CD drive.
But you know what, i was forced to rip all my favorite music songs to USB thumb drives and i will never miss that CD drive.
No CD cases to carry from vehicle to vehicle, copied the music on 2 thumb drives and they are permanently plugged into my F150 and WK2's USB ports.
Also i don't miss the occasional CD skip when hitting a bump or miss some of the crappy songs on my CD albums.

Yeah i'm old school in many ways but progress and technology drives on whether we like it or not but at some point have to adapt to it.
 

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I was initially disappointed that my new WK2 did not have an owner's manual hard copy in the glove compartment like with all of my previous new vehicles i've bought over the years.
But you know what, i downloaded the manual and its at my PC's keyboard finger tips since i use my PC at least a couple times a day. I can search the pdf file to instantly find what i was looking for.

Myself at the end of the day, i'd rather relax and watch TV with beer in hand rather then reading a voluminous hard copy of an owner's manual. By the way i started to actually read my F150's hard copy manual and it ended up being as a cure for insomnia.

I was also disappointed that my new WK2 did not include a CD drive.
But you know what, i was forced to rip all my favorite music songs to USB thumb drives and i will never miss that CD drive.
No CD cases to carry from vehicle to vehicle, copied the music on 2 thumb drives and they are permanently plugged into my F150 and WK2's USB ports.
Also i don't miss the occasional CD skip when hitting a bump or miss some of the crappy songs on my CD albums.

Yeah i'm old school in many ways but progress and technology drives on whether we like it or not but at some point have to adapt to it.
You can also access your OM in the uconnect as well. I'm not sure when they started that but its in my 2018 Trailhawk. Rather then trying to bring it up on my phone if i'm not near a computer I can just search through it while i'm sitting in the Jeep.
 

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This is bad news. Peugeot in France is like Fiat in Italy, cheap crappy little cars that are are loved by their countrymen.
Can't see it being a good thing in North America, we have higher standards. I wonder if Peugeot will use it a as step to push their brand here, if so it will fail like Fiat has.
I worked for the Mopar division for 30 years Jeep was the best move Chrysler made, when Diamler took over it was a nightmare they gutted us , they didn’t have a clue how to sell millions of cars and make money they just knew how to make a lot and build a few thousand cars and I saw first hand they quality was any better , then when Fiat took over it was much better quality wise I’ll give a plus for that and letting us do what we did best but then they tried to sell their little tin can cars over here and well you know how that has gone and then try to disguise that renegade as a Jeep “ please” is whistling sh-t box . When I retired in 2013 Chrysler was keeping Fiat afloat and still is we are the cash cow we got great trucks , most of the Jeeps still world class and the good old mini van
And keeping a hot looking muscle car . Without us Chrysler they would go broke. I’m a die hard Mopar guy but would think hard if buying a new one .
Just got my hands on a 82 Scrambler that’s been garaged my drive to church Jeep.
 

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Well some are luckier than others, my 2014 JGC came with a complete manual which I have read and still use. My 2020 Jeep wrangler also came with a complete owners manual which I'm still reading, though I'll admit it's laid out screwy.
Perhaps the next generation will smell of elderberries with a touch of hamster...
 

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Some under the brands of PSA (which, as a poster said correctly is Peugeot S.A. - or Peugeot Limited) are very storied brands. Citroen, with their famous DS which incorporated many technologies far ahead of their time - the adaptive suspension and lighting that "steered" around turns - or the 2CV, the car that looked like it was made out of sardine cans and brought mobility to generations. Opel/Vauxhall was, of course, the European branch of GM that built lots of solid cars.

Done properly, this can be a boon to all of the combined companies. While we see the French cars as quirky here in North America, the truth is that this group of manufacturers has a wealth of engineering experience that can be of great benefit.
 

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You mentioned the Opel and I almost spit out my water.. 😂. I once had this Opel that would crap out it’s drive shaft about every 15000 miles. Tuning the twin carbs was a real P.iT.A. too.. it LOOKED cool though.
 

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My parents had a Renault 18i it was a piece of junk. And everyone I knew who had a Peugeot spent more time looking at it in the shop than driving it. I am not at all excited about this
 

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Along with everyone else. It's one of the largest, if not the largest, markets for vehicles in the world.
 

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Oh
We forgot you can now read the OM thru your U-Connect Radio. I'd rather have the printed manual in my hands so I bought 1 of them from Fiat Chrysler America, and requested the free copy. Got both of them one is on my table by my recliner in the house and the other one is in the vehicle. Funny thing though I still have my 2016 JGC OM and when you look up something about the Start Stop feature it's on basically the exact same page number in the 2016 OM. And I got those for free. Also there is a guy on e-Bay selling them, the OM's

Also if somebody is looking for a 2016 OM PM me and I will send it to you.
I got my new 2020 WK2 last November, and it did come with the full size paper owners manual in a Camo Fabric draw string bag along with the warranty papers,etc. I wonder why so many others did not get a copy ?
 
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