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been reading where someone is watering down the gas with ethonal and that that same person claims they are not touching premium fuel because certain cars cannot run with out it. it would create a huge red flag with broke down vehicles at the pump?
 

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Exceeding 15% ethanol would be an issue for many vehicles. But pretty much no vehicle "requires" ethanol. "Premium" fuel...which has a higher octane so it doesn't burn as fast...is required for higher compression engines, etc. There would likely be no difference relative to ethanol, however, from regular and mid-grade fuels. Some super high performance engines used in, say, drag racing, run on pure ethanol. ;)
 
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In the U.K., they have replaced regular gas with e10, which has a higher ethanol % ethanol mix. It’s better for the environment due to lower emissions but it’s counter productive as you achieve lower mpg on it. Not to mention some cars don’t like it. There’s lots of direct injection gas engines that have failed as a result of running on it and it perishes seals quicker. A lot of older vw & mitsubishis quite literally can’t run on it as well as many motorbikes. These now have to run on the higher octane as it’s the only gas we now have that’s e5.

well done to the EU once again for making something worse to try and solve a problem and put a positive spin on it when it’s actually just rubbish. So basically now, if you want to run e5 fuel (or have to), it will cost you 9.13usd for a US gallon at todays prices
 

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been reading where someone is watering down the gas with ethonal and that that same person claims they are not touching premium fuel because certain cars cannot run with out it. it would create a huge red flag with broke down vehicles at the pump?
You must be located...somewhere where they still sell 100% gasoline. Well, most of the large urban areas have used a blend of up to 10% ethanol in gasoline for years...decades. And nothing ever happened to the vehicle. E10 it is called and helps lower pollution. I have seen E15as well. I've used it for at least 10 years in a tuned, turbocharged Subaru and nothing failed. I've used it in the Jeep for 8 years. It was still working as of 20:00 last night.

And yes, there has even been E85 which was mostly ethanol but most high performance cars did not drink that. While cleaner burning, it was energetically less efficient to burn E85 so you ended buying more of it, more often. Corn subsidies. I have never used E85.
 

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Jim,
FYI Dragsters use Nitromethane and Methanol. Nascar went Green and uses 15% Ethanol Sunoco fuel🙄.
 
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Yea, I mixed up Ethanol and Methanol, which are certainly very similar, but, um...different...and come from different sources.
 
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It remains a common misconception that ethanol lowers emissions. It USED to lower emissions back in the 70's and perhaps a bit in the 80's. Today's emissions systems produce the same emissions whether the fuel is ethanol or straight gas. The gvt has lied to you for decades about the need for ethanol. The only value of ethanol is to get the votes of farmers. It's also a misconception that you can't have ethanol in premium fuel. The thing that makes premium premium is the octane rating. While it's true ethanol has lower energy content, adding it to gasoline increases the octane rating of the gasoline/ethonal mix. Which means they can sell you premium that won't knock, but it still won't give you all the power the engine is capable of if they have mixed ethanol in it. Since the gvt mandates 10% ethanol in ALL gas sold in many jurisdictions it's a pretty sure thing premium has the same 10% ethanol as regular does. I know here in Maricopa County it is not possible to get non-ethanol gas unless you are willing to pay $10+ a gallon, buy it in 5 gallon cans, pour it in off site, and I think you have to sign a paper saying you will only be using it off road...It's sold as racing fuel. Yet in one of the northern counties you can buy non-ethanol at a few gas station for an extra $0.30 a gallon.
 

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Of course our current government leaders would encourage E15 use (more corn) when there is a worldwide food shortage. So it not only does not help the fuel shortage situation because you have to use more of it...and it does not help the pollution situation because you have to use more of it.....it also adds to the worldwide shortage of food.....AND it takes more REAL fuel (diesel) to produce the corn to make ethanol. Nothing makes a situation worse like politicians trying to cover their butts and the unintended consequences thereof.
 
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It remains a common misconception that ethanol lowers emissions. It USED to lower emissions back in the 70's and perhaps a bit in the 80's. Today's emissions systems produce the same emissions whether the fuel is ethanol or straight gas. The gvt has lied to you for decades about the need for ethanol.

People have the right to choose their information sources. You can choose Fox News or CNN. Newsmax or OANN or Al Jazerra. Mother Gaia or world socialist website. Twitter or Facebook.
But neither news source is exclusively right and they all are guilty of creating alternate realities and misleading the viewer to promote a certain agenda.

Science should drive the facts and decisions.

Ethanol lowers emissions. The combustion of a gallon of ethanol produces less CO2 (carbon dioxide) than a gallon of gasoline or diesel. It also results in lower emissions of PAH (poly aromatic hydrocarbons) and other harmful particles.

But ethanol is not a substitute for gasoline and diesel. It is energetically a poorer fuel, with less kilo Joules (kJ) of energy per unit mass. So you have to use more of it, more often, and end up paying more. Also, when looking at land use, from seeding, planting, to crops, and conversion of corn to fuel, it makes the energy equation even worse, being actually more "carbon intensive" than straight up gasoline. That's why E85 simply remains a way to get farmer votes, and does NOT become a clean energy substitute.

So E85 is not the future of fossil fuels but NOT because the chemistry of combustion is not valid, but because of its lifecycle. Same goes for hydrogen - and how it is generated at the present time. That's why E10-E15 is used, because it does help lower somewhat the emissions, it keeps some people happy (subsidized) and it represents a compromise. It is not just the "global warming" you are trying to prevent but all the respiratory injuries, asthma, cancers, etc. associated with particulate emissions from burning fossil fuels.

There is another misconception - not all corn is the same. Some is for human consumption, some is for livestock. And some is actually for fuels.

Life is full of gray areas, very few things are black and white.
 

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There is another misconception - not all corn is the same. Some is for human consumption, some is for livestock. And some is actually for fuels.
True...but it there was no government mandate for ethanol in gasoline then those same farmers would most likely be growing corn for food...or some other food crop. As I said....typical government unintended consequences of making fuel less efficient and reducing food production. Not to mention the problems ethanol fuel causes with the fuel systems in engines thereby reducing the efficiency and increasing the maintenance costs.
 
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People have the right to choose their information sources. You can choose Fox News or CNN. Newsmax or OANN or Al Jazerra. Mother Gaia or world socialist website. Twitter or Facebook.
But neither news source is exclusively right and they all are guilty of creating alternate realities and misleading the viewer to promote a certain agenda.

Science should drive the facts and decisions.

Ethanol lowers emissions. The combustion of a gallon of ethanol produces less CO2 (carbon dioxide) than a gallon of gasoline or diesel. It also results in lower emissions of PAH (poly aromatic hydrocarbons) and other harmful particles.

But ethanol is not a substitute for gasoline and diesel. It is energetically a poorer fuel, with less kilo Joules (kJ) of energy per unit mass. So you have to use more of it, more often, and end up paying more. Also, when looking at land use, from seeding, planting, to crops, and conversion of corn to fuel, it makes the energy equation even worse, being actually more "carbon intensive" than straight up gasoline. That's why E85 simply remains a way to get farmer votes, and does NOT become a clean energy substitute.

So E85 is not the future of fossil fuels but NOT because the chemistry of combustion is not valid, but because of its lifecycle. Same goes for hydrogen - and how it is generated at the present time. That's why E10-E15 is used, because it does help lower somewhat the emissions, it keeps some people happy (subsidized) and it represents a compromise. It is not just the "global warming" you are trying to prevent but all the respiratory injuries, asthma, cancers, etc. associated with particulate emissions from burning fossil fuels.

There is another misconception - not all corn is the same. Some is for human consumption, some is for livestock. And some is actually for fuels.

Life is full of gray areas, very few things are black and white.
The difference in tailpipe emissions is miniscule.

From one analysis..
"But as always when utilizing ethanol - gasoline comparisons, the per-gallon numbers don't mean anything. Using an energy density of 121.12 & 79.86 MJ/Gal for Gasoline & EtOH respectively, we end up with 73.56 & 72.25 gCO2e/MJ for Gasoline and EtOH, respectively. that difference is effectively nothing, as if you jumped between the LHV and HHV of gasoline you can flip which fuel is technically on top."

biofuels - Carbon emissions from Ethanol car fuel - Sustainable Living Stack Exchange
 

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I've been using E88 lately (15% ethanol) with no issues and no drop in mileage. It is about 25 cents per gallon cheaper in my area and I've read many posts of people running it in their hemi's with no issues for years.
 

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Regardless of how it's labeled, 15% ethanol is about "the limit" for engines that are not designed and noted as "flex fuel".
 

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Nope. I've seen it referred to both ways online, but Sheetz in Pennsylvania lists it at the pump as E88 because it is 88 octane. That's the only place I can find it locally.
I've seen it listed as Reg88 and Unl88, or fully spelled out as Regular88 or Unleaded88, but not E88.
 
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