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Hello,

I see there are a handful of 2018 leftover diesels for sale in the US. I have a 10 mile commute one way each day, 20 miles total.

I like the thought of the torque for off road and towing - but am I entering into a train wreck buying an aged diesel that has not been driven? Just find a Hemi instead?
 

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If you like the diesel format, it's a very nice option...there are many folks that covet that. Obviously, it would benefit you more if you spent more time/miles on the road, however. It really is great for towing because of the low end torque as an alternative to the V8.
 

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2015 WK2 Overland
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I had a short commute with my TDI. I made sure to make regular long trips and I could recognize when I pulled into the driveway it was doing a regen and would leave it idle until it was complete.

Not ideal for short trips but you can manage.
 

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2014 Summit 5.7 4wd 20" tires swapped to 18", added all skid plates
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You'll get all the torque you need with a Hemi for driving or towing. For that matter, unless you do a lot of heavy towing even the V6 would be fine. If you just want a diesel go for it but there is no rational justification, esp with a 10 mile one way commute.
 

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18 WK2 Trailhawk
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In 2016 when Jeep announced the Trailhawk version of the WK2 and that it would be available with the Quadra-Drive II 4wd system with the V6, I was ready to order one. After thinking about it I decided I wanted the diesel, Drove the V6 and the diesel.....and after crunching the numbers and costs and all that I realized that the pros of the gas V6 out weighed the want of the diesel, especially considering I don't tow anything. I was really excited about the range on one tank with the diesel but the extra 4500 dollars for the option kinda pushed me away. In July 2016 I ordered the Trailhawk with a V6, not too long after that it was announced the diesel was delayed and I was kinda glad i got the gas V6, later we would find out the issue wasn't a delay but basically it would be unavailable.

I had the V6 for two years then decided I wanted the Hemi, so I traded the 17 V6 for a leftover 18 Hemi. Hemi is awesome, the torque difference can really be felt. The V6 is fine, good even.....but I really prefer the Hemi, and the hit on the MPG is minimal, actually on straight up highway trips the Hemi does a little better then the V6. In the city the opposite is true but the V6 doesn't beat the Hemi by much.

I guess that was the long winded way of saying they are all pretty good, you'll have to decide what will work best for you and go for it. Good luck.
 

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I had the V6 for two years then decided I wanted the Hemi, so I traded the 17 V6 for a leftover 18 Hemi. Hemi is awesome, the torque difference can really be felt. The V6 is fine, good even.....but I really prefer the Hemi, and the hit on the MPG is minimal, actually on straight up highway trips the Hemi does a little better then the V6. In the city the opposite is true but the V6 doesn't beat the Hemi by much.

I guess that was the long winded way of saying they are all pretty good, you'll have to decide what will work best for you and go for it. Good luck.
I'm very new to the WK2 game, just bought a North edition, V6 with low range. I'm guessing that the fuel mileage between the Pentastar V6 and the 5.7 Hemi Eagle are minimal; 1 or 2 MPG. The real question is do you WANT or NEED the Eagle? For the price, I didn't pass either of these two questions.

That being said, the ECO Diesel is a mileage beast! My brother-in-law has one in a 2WD 2017 Ram with 3.92s that he drives and occasionally tows a fairly substantial travel trailer with. He does drive conservatively, 65ish in Texas and pulls down 26-28 MPG overall empty and 13-5-14 MPG with the trailer. The real questions is ECO Diesel reliability and cost payback. I frankly tried to talk him into an Eagle. However, he's happy and has had no issues with the '17ECO RAM.

We did install the in-spring Air Lift bags and we DID make sure the weight distributing hitch was setup properly.


ECODiesel.JPG
ECODiesel Trailer.JPG
On the scales front.JPG
On the scales correct 4.JPG
Weight set correctly 6 links.JPG
ECO GVWR.JPG
ECODiesel.JPG
ECODiesel Trailer.JPG
On the scales front.JPG
On the scales front.JPG
Weight set correctly 6 links.JPG
ECO GVWR.JPG


ECODiesel Trailer.JPG
On the scales front.JPG
On the scales correct 4.JPG
Weight set correctly 6 links.JPG
 

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High Altitude JGC
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I just bought a 2018 low mileage used High Altitude a year ago and love the diesel! I drive low mileage as well, but since we have a hybrid as a second car, I use that for very short trips and only start the diesel when I know I can warm it up fully, like over 15 minutes of operation. 10 miles seems plenty for that especially if you can go out on a bit longer road trips once in awhile.I also tow a 5000 lb plus boat and trailer and this thing is a real road warrior. I also love the mileage coming from a 2002 5.7L V8 that only drank high octane at about 17mpg average. This thing is getting mid to hi 20's mpg and diesel is way cheaper than non-ethanol premium. The diesel so out performs the whimpy V6 and is way stingier on fuel than the V8.
 

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Hello,

I see there are a handful of 2018 leftover diesels for sale in the US. I have a 10 mile commute one way each day, 20 miles total.

I like the thought of the torque for off road and towing - but am I entering into a train wreck buying an aged diesel that has not been driven? Just find a Hemi instead?
Hi
I don't understand the fear you Americans have of the deisel or the passion for the gas guzzling Hemi. Granted the Hemi is a much punchier engine. I had a Land Rover Discovery 4 ( I think you call them an LR4) 3.0 V6 twin turbo diesel for nine years and now a 2018 TrailHawk 3.0 diesel or Eco Diesel as you call it.
I would not even think of buying a petrol. Diesel or nothing. The TH is available ONLY in diesel in AU. The other models can be had with the 3.6, 5.7 etc. and the TrackHawk.
Just curious. I love my diesel.
 

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4WL TREK-er — so many trails, so little time
2016 JGC CRD
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I don't understand the fear you Americans have of the deisel...
Dougal, it’s mostly about the reliability. Many, many JGC CRD owners have no problems with their rigs, and they are out there enjoying and driving them. But there are some (enough) who have had problems with theirs. I love my CRD (I don’t say EcoDiesel), but I had a 2014 that had problems, and Jeep bought it back under the lemon law. I decided to get another CRD so now I have a 2016. Search here for my threads and you’ll see the history.

I love my 2016 JGC CRD, but it too has not been trouble free. But lately it’s been running great. I plan to keep mine for 300, 400, or 500,000 miles. Or more!

As for Americans and diesels, yes we have not been quick to adopt them, unlike the EU for example. Two contributing factors over the years have been:
  • In the 70s and 80s General Motors and other American companies manufactured diesel vehicles in response to the oil and fuel crisis then. They were of poor quality, and that turned many Americans off.
  • Before ULSD requirements, diesel fuel was very sooty and ‘sulphury’. Billowing black smoke from the tail pipes, and dark sooty deposits on the car’s rear. Fuel pumps were dirty and oily. Diesel wasn’t readily available, especially on long road trips in remote lands. This also turned many Americans off.
Diesel is becoming more popular here. It is slowly making a comeback.
 

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OK echo, thanks for the background.
Diesel fuel here is of good quality and available in a sootless variety for passenger vehicles.
In the 4x4 world, diesels are preferred for fuel efficiency and reliability. In one way they are more complicated in terms of compression ratio, but are far simpler when it comes to problems that just don't occur. The biggest issue is not having an ignition system they don't care if they get wet crossing a stream. Less things to go wrong. We've been on some serious desert treks. 10,000km. With my aftermarket 104L auxilliary tank, I could get 1500km on tar and 1000km towing a trailer in soft sand.
The torque is a big factor in towing or hill climbing.
Horses for courses I guess and we haven't had the negative issues you describe. Certainly not the recall.
Thanks again...:)
Doug
 

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I'm very new to the WK2 game, just bought a North edition, V6 with low range. I'm guessing that the fuel mileage between the Pentastar V6 and the 5.7 Hemi Eagle are minimal; 1 or 2 MPG. The real question is do you WANT or NEED the Eagle? For the price, I didn't pass either of these two questions.

That being said, the ECO Diesel is a mileage beast! My brother-in-law has one in a 2WD 2017 Ram with 3.92s that he drives and occasionally tows a fairly substantial travel trailer with. He does drive conservatively, 65ish in Texas and pulls down 26-28 MPG overall empty and 13-5-14 MPG with the trailer. The real questions is ECO Diesel reliability and cost payback. I frankly tried to talk him into an Eagle. However, he's happy and has had no issues with the '17ECO RAM.

We did install the in-spring Air Lift bags and we DID make sure the weight distributing hitch was setup properly.


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Looks like you are very nicely set up rig already (nice to see people put the effort into getting it right!) but look this up...
llams.com.au
It is a kit that adds overrides to the air suspension on JGCs and RAMs. The website refers to the Land Rover Discovery which was the only vehicle with air initially, but Graeme now makes a kit for the JGC/RAM.
I had a LLAMS on my 2010 Discovery for 9 years. Awesome. I now have a kit to install on my 2018 3.0 diesel JGC TrailHawk.
They run about A$600 and retain the original settings with an additional over ride of -20, 0, +30 and +50mm at the turn of a knob.
 

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North American diesel emissions standards are stricter than Euro standards including UK and Australia.
A "dirtier" diesel is easier to tune and run reliably. Euro/Australia diesels were tuned more for fuel efficiency - easier to do on a diesel as long as you don't care about NOx emissions.
The much stricter NOx standards for USA caused quite a bit of grief for manufacturers.
The addition of DEF fluid requirement in most diesels for 2011 caused a great amount of reliability issues - I lived the pain running a large fleet of light duty diesels in Canada.
As for the JGC diesel, the reliability problems were some design issues (cylinder heads causing soot build up, cams not keyed causing bigger issues) .
 

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North American diesel emissions standards are stricter than Euro standards including UK and Australia.
A "dirtier" diesel is easier to tune and run reliably. Euro/Australia diesels were tuned more for fuel efficiency - easier to do on a diesel as long as you don't care about NOx emissions.
The much stricter NOx standards for USA caused quite a bit of grief for manufacturers.
The addition of DEF fluid requirement in most diesels for 2011 caused a great amount of reliability issues - I lived the pain running a large fleet of light duty diesels in Canada.
As for the JGC diesel, the reliability problems were some design issues (cylinder heads causing soot build up, cams not keyed causing bigger issues) .
Oh Ok. I didn't realise that.
Still a lot of manufacturers are planning to wind back on diesels. I figure that's because it can only be "so clean" and that won't meet requirements.
I figure there's a balance between lower NOx and the higher fuel usage of the petrol. The diesel is used mainly for towing and off road. So less cars using it. My JGC Trailhawk is diesel, but my wife's Compass is petrol.
 

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Forgetting the emissions stuff including scandals for a moment...

Honestly, one of the challenges for the diesel at this point is that fuel economy has increased in a meaningful way for gasoline powered vehicles in recent years and in North America, the lower difference in fuel economy calculated against the higher cost per gallon of diesel plus DEF cost makes it harder for the diesel to compete, especially with the premium on that engine choice. High mileage drivers can still benefit pretty well, but the average Joe/Jane isn't going to see much, if any, financial benefit to the diesel. But they are still worthy for certain situations...with the JGC, someone who tows a lot, especially in the upper ranges of capacity, such as for a travel trailer, will be well served with the EcoDiesel because of both torque/power and fuel efficiencies. Those things can help off-road, too, but unlike in some geographies, there's not a big requirement for huge range on the tank as there is where overlanding is kinda what's necessary just to live.
 

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Euro and AUS standards are catching up to US standards, which leads to the same problems, expensive diesels for what end game?
Also, the biggest market for a lot of manufacturers - the US - has very low gasoline prices, and consistently lower than diesel. The small diesels in cars and SUVs/CUVs can't really compete with that.
I was at a drive and ride with Ford engineers in 2007, and I was speaking with one of their engineers, and asking about CUVs and diesels. He didn't see much hope for one at the time, and then we saw the Ford gasoline Eco boost products launch shortly after that. He probably knew the path at that time.
Unless you need a diesel for towing, say more than 10,000 lbs. regularly, you're better off with a gasoline engine in the US.
Ford just launched their 7.3 Liter gas V8 and GM their 6.6 Liter gas V8, both will be used in their heavy duty pickups (F250+) and higher in weight class capability trucks such as the Ford F550.

Sample video.

 

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Ford just launched their 7.3 Liter gas V8 and GM their 6.6 Liter gas V8, both will be used in their heavy duty pickups (F250+) and higher in weight class capability trucks such as the Ford F550.
GM just reported that their fuel economy will be MINUS 1-3 MPG WORSE on hwy on their newest 6.2 V8 ( With newest 10 speed transmission..) in Tahoe/Yukon and other vehicles VS their 2020 models.... So I'd say most petrol vehicles are prob about maxed out on fuel economy. Also even with fuel variation costs, Diesel and premium are equal at best, and most all of these bigger V8's recommend premium. I've owned a Hemi Ram and my EcoD beats it on the hwy by 10 mpg at 80-85 mph. The biggest issues with these EcoD's have been the emissions ... Its been a pain, but in the end, it was all fixed properly and at mostly no cost to me. + I get an extended warranty till 2024 due to the AEM settlement and 3K in my pocket. All in all this vehicle, asides some quirks, has exceeded expectations and continues to do so on a daily basis. Love not having to fill up for 2 weeks at a time... I'm in the market for another diesel when GM's straight 6 comes out in the Yukon Denali. It will be exceptional to get 25+ mpg in a vehicle of that size caliber....
 

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GM just reported that their fuel economy will be MINUS 1-3 MPG WORSE on hwy on their newest 6.2 V8 ( With newest 10 speed transmission..) in Tahoe/Yukon and other vehicles VS their 2020 models.... So I'd say most petrol vehicles are prob about maxed out on fuel economy. Also even with fuel variation costs, Diesel and premium are equal at best, and most all of these bigger V8's recommend premium. I've owned a Hemi Ram and my EcoD beats it on the hwy by 10 mpg at 80-85 mph. The biggest issues with these EcoD's have been the emissions ... Its been a pain, but in the end, it was all fixed properly and at mostly no cost to me. + I get an extended warranty till 2024 due to the AEM settlement and 3K in my pocket. All in all this vehicle, asides some quirks, has exceeded expectations and continues to do so on a daily basis. Love not having to fill up for 2 weeks at a time... I'm in the market for another diesel when GM's straight 6 comes out in the Yukon Denali. It will be exceptional to get 25+ mpg in a vehicle of that size caliber....
The 2021 GMs are bulkier and heavier than 2020 models so no surprise they are doing worse on fuel. They recommend but don't require premium fuel.
Diesels work well when worked hard and at operating temps for long periods. When operated in cold climates, and/or shorter trips, their performance suffers. Lived that managing a large diesel fleet in Canada.
I did overall ownerships costs for similar capability box trucks diesel and gas - and the gasoline trucks consistently came in 20 - 30 % per mile lower costs - all in with fuel, R&M and amortized purchase costs.
 
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