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Discussion Starter #1
Been reading threads from here and especially the Dodge forums on the dreaded p0303 on the 5.7 Hemi engines. Although I see many postings on other cylinders.
Started with a new noticeable tick then next day threw code. Started with the basics, coil pack, check plugs, rotated coil packs and fuel injectors to see if code moved. Nope, right back to cylinder 3.
Every thread from there got catastrophic. Next step, possible valve spring, or lifter fail leading to cam failure. Unreal how common and how many stories I found.

Well, here I am, another statistic with the dealer currently removing head to verify exactly what I thought. I don't have the tools or technical skill for this level of repair even though I take on a lot with other repairs. They have verified so far that lifter is stuck as they wanted to pull it to send in a scope. Now they are forced to pull the head.
Brought to dealer on the hope they hold to the lifetime powertrain warranty they told me came with vechical when purchased. Extended all inclusive warranty is expired. I have 150 K on this 2011 5.7 GC.
Unreal, they are currently working with warranty company to cover either repair of engine or full replacement after cam damage is verified and pictures sent to Zurich the warranty company. Dealer leans to full replacement. Talking to service agent it sounds as if this will be covered. This will effectively end that warranty as the catch is once repairs reach value of vechical, warranty is done. I still have 10 payments to sweat and hope nothing else happens.
While I will be very impressed with the dealer for backing this lifetime warranty that i was skeptical about from day one, I have not been impressed with my first and probably last Hemi powered ride.
Shame because I love my GC and was impressed with the 96 I drove up to 340K. Reason I bought this one.
It really seems there is an issue with these MDS lifters.
I also had the starter and water pump fail before 60K. Complete brake failure covered under recall. Blend door actuator I fixed myself. Have been plagued by annoying codes related to the garbage they sell for gas caps and finally found an after market that actually seals.

Although my engine is looking to be covered it now also leaves me free to deal with the next expense of a failing rack and pinion which is on me and looking expensive and like a repair I have no interest in wasting a weekend on. But sadly, that's a whole other thread.

My gut tells me to drop this vechical as soon as I pay it off.

Will post more updates as I find out. It will be weeks before I see my ride again.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I am providing a link to a long depressing thread regarding the Hemi lifter cam failure from the Ram forum. There is a boatload of catastrophic stories regarding the single cylinder misfire that actually is lifter fail.
The issue is among any Chrysler vechicle with the 5.7 Hemi.
Hope this doesn't violate any rules but has very relevant information for Hemi owners.
 

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You probably understand this....

But the title of the thread has cause and effect reversed.....

If you have a the dreaded failed lifter on the HEMI you will get misfires..... ...the lifter fails and causes symptoms and further damage.... ...there is no way misfires start and proceed to damage the lifter or other parts of the valvetrain....

I would be very frustrated also, this appears to be a quality issue from FCA, that never should have happened.... ....it didn't happen before 2009 and hasn't been happening after 2015....

Don't let them tell you any of this is your fault, if a lifter fails, it damages the rest of the valvetrain instantly or within seconds, a lifter failing but not damaging the cam or other parts of the valvetrain, it very, very rare...... ...(that is why you never cut corners on lifters and other internal components of the vehicle)....

Why the manufacturer's haven't learned their lesson with under the dash either, installing cheap components with a high chance of failure that then requires a $1000 in labor to removed everything necessary to fix the cheap part, is just beyond me, they must be losing money hand over fist in warranty claims that could be prevented......
 

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Discussion Starter #4
You probably understand this....

But the title of the thread has cause and effect reversed.....

If you have a the dreaded failed lifter on the HEMI you will get misfires..... ...the lifter fails and causes symptoms and further damage.... ...there is no way misfires start and proceed to damage the lifter or other parts of the valvetrain....

I would be very frustrated also, this appears to be a quality issue from FCA, that never should have happened.... ....it didn't happen before 2009 and hasn't been happening after 2015....

Don't let them tell you any of this is your fault, if a lifter fails, it damages the rest of the valvetrain instantly or within seconds, a lifter failing but not damaging the cam or other parts of the valvetrain, it very, very rare...... ...(that is why you never cut corners on lifters and other internal components of the vehicle)....

Why the manufacturer's haven't learned their lesson with under the dash either, installing cheap components with a high chance of failure that then requires a $1000 in labor to removed everything necessary to fix the cheap part, is just beyond me, they must be losing money hand over fist in warranty claims that could be prevented......
Yeah I get you on title of thread.
Guess my intention was to get cylinder misfire simply into title as leading to discovery it was actually failed lifter. I Should have worded it better. But may help some folks with a keyword search.
So far, all talk with dealer is that it will be covered. I really thought that free lifetime powertrain was a load of BS when I bought my GC , but appears they intend to back it. My view is the engine was a literal ticking time bomb from the start. Pun intended.
That Ram link was loaded with information.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Had to add.
Cheap parts under the dash? Did you have the stupid blend door gear go also for climate control?

Thankfully I figured that one myself. But would have been a grand if dealer replaced cheap plastic gear.
 

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Had to add.
Cheap parts under the dash? Did you have the stupid blend door gear go also for climate control?

Thankfully I figured that one myself. But would have been a grand if dealer replaced cheap plastic gear.
No actually I haven't on my WK2....

I've owned a lot of Chrysler vehicles over the years, and I had my share of problems and been on several different boards....
I've had the Blend doors break on both Mini-vans I have owned....
I had the evaporator leak on my XK (previous gen, Commander version of the WK)....

Chrysler had a problem for more than a decade with Evaporators going bad, finally tracked down to suppliers cutting corners in the finishing and cleaning process and left acid in the evaporator, that eventually ate through the evaporator and caused a leak.... ...and before you blame the suppliers, look at the pressure Marchionne put on their supplier to cut their prices... ...I'm sure in the private conversations it came out, "go ahead and cut corners" to get us supplies as cheap as possible....

These latest types of HVAC systems, with computer control and electric motor driven blend doors, have been used in the industry for 20 years or more, so this isn't an FCA only problem, new designs and redesigns for all different models and brands.... ....yet they are always designed all plastic with just enough strength to operate when new, any gumming up or slight malfunction, these things break and it requires an insane effort to repair it.....

So there are two things you just don't cut corner on, internal engine components or items under the dash that require complete dash removal to replace...... ....yet, as we've seen, FCA is doing this....
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well the word is in. Lifters on #3 stuck destroying cam and sending metal throughout.
Dealer is replacing engine and motor mounts under lifetime. If manifolds are shot they are covered too.

I am stunned, and very grateful they held to that lifetime and that I had it. Never really thought it believable especially at my mileage. Lifetime is certainly done now, but new engine will have some coverage.
They should have new engine in 3 days. Getting other work done now and multiple fluid changes to get her good hopefully till it's paid off. Still spending a small fortune, but I really thought I was boned on the engine.
 

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So, any takers on the chances that FCA has already lost far more in warranty claims then they ever saved in gypping internal engine parts?......
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So, any takers on the chances that FCA has already lost far more in warranty claims then they ever saved in gypping internal engine parts?......
They certainly must be very aware at this point. Question is, has it been addressed?
The Ram link shows some reporting failure in 2014 and 2015 I believe. Not as many, but they are there.
Do more folks have to worry as their later models get higher mileage?
 

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The HEMI I saw an aftermarket engine builder detailing the problem with the lifters, saying its 2009-2015 that this has been going on.....
I've got no idea about the V6, just that they seem to have a problem also....

The V6 has a cam followers and hydraulic lash adjusters (lifters). Sorta 2 parts to make a bridge under the cam, while the hemi has the parts all in one in the lifter over the cam....
The HEMI its the needle bearings that fail in the roller.....
The V6 I don't know what is failing, but it seems people are saying its the rollers in the cam follower also, so it might also be the needle bearings.....
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The HEMI I saw an aftermarket engine builder detailing the problem with the lifters, saying its 2009-2015 that this has been going on.....
I've got no idea about the V6, just that they seem to have a problem also....

The V6 has a cam followers and hydraulic lash adjusters (lifters). Sorta 2 parts to make a bridge under the cam, while the hemi has the parts all in one in the lifter over the cam....
The HEMI its the needle bearings that fail in the roller.....
The V6 I don't know what is failing, but it seems people are saying its the rollers in the cam follower also, so it might also be the needle bearings.....
Thanks for the replies. Getting quite an education these last few weeks.
Having far more knowledge do you have an opinion regarding introduction of hybrid Hemi? I know they tried it back about 2009.
Seems like a potential of far more failure points.
Engines that shut down multiple times during a drive just seems like asking for it.

All this crap for a few MPG from Fed mandates.
I bought a V8, not a 4 banger and am willing to pay the gas.
 

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Thanks for the replies. Getting quite an education these last few weeks.
Having far more knowledge do you have an opinion regarding introduction of hybrid Hemi? I know they tried it back about 2009.
Seems like a potential of far more failure points.
Engines that shut down multiple times during a drive just seems like asking for it.

All this crap for a few MPG from Fed mandates.
I bought a V8, not a 4 banger and am willing to pay the gas.
I was unaware of any Hybrid Vehicle with a HEMI, I can't see any market for it...
A Hybrid may add more parts, but it also adds a 2nd power source, so you're not left stranded if one fails....

The MDS (Multi-Displacement System) has nothing to do with Hybrids, it merely deactivated cylinders. It is totally unrelated to the failing lifters, most of the lifters that fail are not even on the Cylinders that MDS deactivates. I have no problem with my MDS.

Yes, I'm frustrated with CAFE standards also, you're complaint is with the Federal Government, not the manufacturers... ....all you can do about that is Vote...
 

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When my Wife's Jeep eventually has a lifter failure, I'm not going to use OEM lifters. It looks like the aftermarket may have solved the issue but I may need to do an MDS delete to use non-OEM lifters. It may cost me more in parts up front, but only having to pull the heads off once will be worth it.
 

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There are aftermarket roller lifters designed to be more reliable and durable than the OEM.... ....the same engine builder explaining the cause of the HEMI's failed lifters, showed them.....

The aftermarket roller lifters he showed, had an oiling hole drilled into the surface of the roller to allow oil to flow into the needle bearings... ...presumably these use needle bearings with better quality control as well.....
 

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My Hemi blew with same issue last month. Replaced at $11k charge free under Maxcare. My vehicle was still worth 15k so I still have remaining lifetime. Thank god. 2012 wk2 overland
 

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Discussion Starter #16
When my Wife's Jeep eventually has a lifter failure, I'm not going to use OEM lifters. It looks like the aftermarket may have solved the issue but I may need to do an MDS delete to use non-OEM lifters. It may cost me more in parts up front, but only having to pull the heads off once will be worth it.
That long link I posted in OP has many folks posting their rebuilds and technical information. May come in handy.
Should get my ride back in about a week.
Really thankful I bought at this particular dealer. Many don't have the lifetime.
Just checked and wife has it also on her Jeep.
 

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What is it with Chrisler and lifter problems. Our 08 town and country just had a bad lifter diagnosed. When I look on line I see it seems to be a common problem.
 

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Off topic but related to vehicle longevity:

I was surprised to read an IHS market study identified the average ownership of vehicles is 79 months. I keep up to date on the vehicle market and to me it SEEMED that vehicles were becoming a disposable commodity much like technology. There doesn't appear to be a vehicle out that doesn't have catastrophic powertrain issues before/after the warranties are up. With loan and lease payments longer and larger than ever (that's what she said) it seemed to suit that theory. How many situations have you seen or read where someone is complaining that their vehicle is inoperable at 200K miles or similar and expected more? I would be curious to see a poll that ask people from different countries, tax brackets, average miles driven yearly, if they have dependents, etc on how long they expect a new vehicle to "last."

For me to drive a 150K using those criteria it would take me more than 15yrs and I've never kept a vehicle past 6yrs/60K miles so my expectations vary. Don't get me wrong I think powertrains should last through the warranty period easily but as a society how long do we expect things to last with basic maintenance and in various geographical climates? I think manufacturers realize some of these trends in consumers and since most vehicle related webpages (e.g. forums) contain mostly negative topics we never hear positive trends unless a car hits a million miles on the odometer. As the OP you are stating how you'll never buy another Hemi again after 150K miles and in all reality you'll probably tell everyone who will listen how your 5.7L Hemi was shit all while neglecting to tell them how many miles it had or if proper maintenance was done per the owners manual. Not saying that's you but it's the reality of most that we take small sample of issues and assume it affects the masses. So my question to the OP and everyone reading is simple; if you had a vehicle off the showroom floor and using your current life situation how many miles would you expect to get out of it?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Off topic but related to vehicle longevity:

I was surprised to read an IHS market study identified the average ownership of vehicles is 79 months. I keep up to date on the vehicle market and to me it SEEMED that vehicles were becoming a disposable commodity much like technology. There doesn't appear to be a vehicle out that doesn't have catastrophic powertrain issues before/after the warranties are up. With loan and lease payments longer and larger than ever (that's what she said) it seemed to suit that theory. How many situations have you seen or read where someone is complaining that their vehicle is inoperable at 200K miles or similar and expected more? I would be curious to see a poll that ask people from different countries, tax brackets, average miles driven yearly, if they have dependents, etc on how long they expect a new vehicle to "last."

For me to drive a 150K using those criteria it would take me more than 15yrs and I've never kept a vehicle past 6yrs/60K miles so my expectations vary. Don't get me wrong I think powertrains should last through the warranty period easily but as a society how long do we expect things to last with basic maintenance and in various geographical climates? I think manufacturers realize some of these trends in consumers and since most vehicle related webpages (e.g. forums) contain mostly negative topics we never hear positive trends unless a car hits a million miles on the odometer. As the OP you are stating how you'll never buy another Hemi again after 150K miles and in all reality you'll probably tell everyone who will listen how your 5.7L Hemi was shit all while neglecting to tell them how many miles it had or if proper maintenance was done per the owners manual. Not saying that's you but it's the reality of most that we take small sample of issues and assume it affects the masses. So my question to the OP and everyone reading is simple; if you had a vehicle off the showroom floor and using your current life situation how many miles would you expect to get out of it?
My last 96 Jeep made 340K without major powertrain failure. Transmission finally went and at that point didn't have any value. But I was sold on reliability. I expected at least 250K out of this one. It is a given that a major expense may come up, but one at least expects the engine and transmission make above 200K. Its the least a customer should expect when paying 40K or more. Seeing this is an ongoing issue related to this engine, why would I buy another? Has this lifter issue been corrected? On that link I provided, folks with models up to 2015 are reporting it. Sure sounds like QA issue regarding parts suppliers.
Currently driving a Toyota Corolla as backup during this with 195K. Hasn't received the love and care I give my Jeep. Has never thrown a code and has all original parts in it still. Not a waterpump, alternator, not even a single sensor fail yet. I can't say the same for this Jeep. My 2011 is no 96.
 

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1, 4, 6, 7 are the MDS cylinders on the 5.7 Hemi. I took out #8 - a non MDS lifter, and another member here lost his #5, which is also non-MDS, so totally agree with what Mongo53 is saying. I use synthetic oil and did regular oil changes as per the EVIC notification. I don't know if increasing the oil change frequency would have prevented these failures, or if the build quality of the OE lifter (needle bearing) was going to fail regardless. I rebuilt with Melling lifters about 1 year ago now, and so far the engine is happy. Glad to hear your dealer went to bat for you, and that it got covered.
 
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