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.......can anyone expand on this? My understanding is that there are TONS of ways to get a VIN number off of a vehicle, such as a license plate lookup. Are you saying a thief could obtain my fob codes with my VIN#? Thats crazy.

thanks again everyone.

You read that backwards......

If you take the keys to a service provider who is NOT affiliated with FCA, or buy your own tooling to program your own keys, OR find a dealer who is willing to do this (They are capable, but "custom" is not what they're about....), you can literally just program your existing keys to the vehicle again. May have to clear them out separately? Not sure on these. But when you "relearn" those same keys, nothing that's recorded by the VIN at FCA will reveal information as to how to make up a new key. A lot of (not all) vehicles are past that point anyhow... (Gotta have the car and the key both present, as the car must "learn" the key, and the key must "learn" the car). Kinda like a mechanical lock. You could change the ignition cylinder to one with a different key (Or have a locksmith rekey yours, or rekey your own if you're into such projects). At that point, you could no longer take the VIN to the dealer to have a new key cut. Nor could anyone else. Same idea, just electronic.
 

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One thing I was considering was buying a 3rd party GPS tracker and hooking it up to the secondary StopStart battery under the seat. Most thieves probably wouldnt think to unplug that, and if they did it would probably already have pinged their location.
The primary battery is under there, too....
 

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The key has unique identifier, an RFID chip, when you program keys to your vehicle, you're really programming the vehicle electronics to recognize that key's unique identifier as one that is authorized to start and run the vehicle.

Once a key has been programmed to a vehicle it cannot be programed to another. Not sure how this done, but it must flip a bit or store some sort of info about the vehicle it is being programmed to prevent it from being programmed to another vehicle.

Do not buy a used key on ebay, it can not be programmed to your vehicle, something they fail to mention in the auction/listing. No key can be re-used for another vehicle once its been programmed to work in a vehicle once.

There are a few companies flashing old keys to be in the original like new state, and selling them as refurbished keys. Only these companies have the equipment to do this that I am aware of, the Dealer or most locksmiths are NOT capable of flashing a used key to return it to the like new state.

And the ebay scammers are back it, selling used keys and claiming any locksmith or the dealer can flash it to be used for you vehicle, they can't.

What Dealers and Lock Smiths are doing today to program the vehicle to new keys, is too clear the memory of all keys and program all current keys together, that is why they tell you to bring all your keys. Not sure how they re-use old keys, you are using the key for the same vehicle, not a different vehicle. So perhaps the process recognizes previously programmed keys or the used key has stored information about the original vehicle it was programmed to.

I am not aware of anyway to make a key from a VIN#.

FCA used to have a "Customer Self Programming of keys feature", but they had Dealer employees using the feature to make a spare unkown key using cheap ebay keys, that would sell them to car thieves. So what FCA did is punish the customers instead of the Dealerships, and got rid of the Customer Self-Programming feature, and you have to have the dealership program new keys, where there will be a record of the new keys made. And just learned, some of the performance PCM's for the performance engines, that have multiple programs in them or have multiple PCM's have some sort of exploit to get around the immobilizer security system. Perhaps that is what is behind rumors of VIN# and keys to steal the vehicle.
 

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How does making a key not programmable to another vehicle help anyone at all except the people who sell keys?
 

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How does making a key not programmable to another vehicle help anyone at all except the people who sell keys?
The manufacturers buy the keys from the supplier at $7.60/unit. That figure is a couple of years old, but they were still selling just the key for $320 back then.

I'm sure they have arguments for how it makes the car harder to steal, that would be lame and the 4,200% profit margin has nothing to do with why they do these things.:cautious:

Getting rid of the Customer Self-Programming Feature does have an argument that it does prevent theft because of their crappy dealerships with dishonest employees would participate in the car theft, but by making the customer pay many times more for replacement keys.
 

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Meet Thor (185 lbs of pure muscle). He watches everything and everyone. He and my other two Cane Corsos have access to my fenced in yard and garage all hours of the day and night. The smallest of the three (she’s about 120 lbs) can run 30-35 mph and will chase anything down on command. Along with hardwired/wireless cameras and a decent home motion sensed perimeter alarm system and plenty of firearms......if they want my vehicles that bad they can have them. Good luck. Lol. Someone stole one of our mowers out of our barn and let our horses out in broad daylight a couple of years ago so now we take precautions. The kill switch is the only thing I have installed for more vulnerable areas when not at home. Don’t wire it in an obvious place like under the dash or in the console...hide it well. Like others have said...if they want it bad enough and they have the skills they will get it. Deterrents are the only tools we have.

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How does making a key not programmable to another vehicle help anyone at all except the people who sell keys?
Actually, now that I think about it. It doesn't prevent theft of the vehicle, but it prevents theft of the key itself, when a potential thief knows it can only be used for one vehicle and has utterly no value for another vehicle. At $320 at the very least, usually more, the temptation to steel a key left unattended for a second could be a big problem for owners.

It may help vehicle theft in the sense better control of the keys and there is not some glut of old used keys that can used to steal the vehicle in some sort of scam.
 

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Actually, now that I think about it. It doesn't prevent theft of the vehicle, but it prevents theft of the key itself, when a potential thief knows it can only be used for one vehicle and has utterly no value for another vehicle. At $320 at the very least, usually more, the temptation to steel a key left unattended for a second could be a big problem for owners.

It may help vehicle theft in the sense better control of the keys and there is not some glut of old used keys that can used to steal the vehicle in some sort of scam.
If they sold them at a fair price there would be no black market. The odds of getting the "right" old key are very slim so that seems pretty unlikely as a reason for theft. Looks like it's just an excuse to gouge the customer... like the toyota's where if you lost all your keys you had to buy a new main computer for $1000 as there was no way to program a new key to the existing computer if you didn't have an already programmed key.
 

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If they sold them at a fair price there would be no black market. The odds of getting the "right" old key are very slim so that seems pretty unlikely as a reason for theft. Looks like it's just an excuse to gouge the customer... like the toyota's where if you lost all your keys you had to buy a new main computer for $1000 as there was no way to program a new key to the existing computer if you didn't have an already programmed key.
I don't disagree, Chrysler's used to be like Toyota in that it system could only store 5 keys, some 6 or 7. So, if you lost 5 keys over the life of the vehicle, no more could be programmed and you would have to purchase all new modules for the immobilizer system, so you could program new keys.

And I think after enough complaints they changed it, I think it was in the tools and protocols, not a physical limitation of the system, they can now clear the memory of all old keys. So, the standard procedure is you have to bring all your keys with you, then they clear the memory and program all the keys, new and old again to the vehicle.

So how does an old key work again for the same vehicle if a key can't be re-used? I don't know, but logically one of two things have to happen, when the key is initially programmed it stores info about the car it was programmed to (the previous speculation was it just flips a bit in the eprom of the key to make it unprogrammable), OR, the system or programming tool don't really erase the keys in memory until after the process, preserving the old keys re-identified again.
 

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I just bought a 2021 jeep grand cherokee Ltd 4x4, I drove her straight to a indoor garage for monthly parking here in the city... that's the only sure way of preventing theft if you're living in a city.. or in town a a fenced in parking area.
 

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Personally its a car that depreciates, as long as I have GAP insurance on theft why would I care if someone stole it? Its completely replaceable. Now, if you had a car that was semi classic or had some real uniqueness that made it not easily replaceable that is a whole 'nother matter. I had a very unique Mazda RX7....I had a kill switch installed and hid it behind the console where only I knew where the button was....and without that it was difficult. But if a thief wants your ride....they will get it regardless....
 

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Now, with that said, I have always thought that the best way of dealing with stealing the codes at home is to place your key fog in a FARADAY type cage.....metallic, or even the microwave.......there are many stories of folks seeing you walk home, and will steal your code from when you enter your home simply by somehow REPEATING your fob's remote start .....and since you normally leave them by the door,,its easy to grab ..... so put the keyfob into a protective pouch of some kind which are pretty cheap to find.....its something at least.
 

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This is fairly goofy. Put your fob in a pouch or a grounded cage and your car will still transspond and start and such. The waves get through, Maybe Farady was working with the AM radio band, 1000 thousand cycles a second and a wavelength of 300 meters. The fob and cell phone use a different animal with different characteristics. The 100 million cycle wave with a wavelength of fractions of a centimeter goes through your silly cage as if it weren't there, better to wear a tinfoil hat to scare the thieves away.
 

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I dont post here to be judged goofy. If I am wrong you can correct me but seriously, it's just an idea. Maybe you should be a bit more kind.
 

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I guess I am not the only goofy one........an RFID bag apparently is effective.......huffpost is used for the liberals here who may not like a conservative site for reference.....https://www.huffpost.com/entry/car-key-in-tin-foil-fob-relay-attack_l_5db8d269e4b00d83f71ef35a
 

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Personally its a car that depreciates, as long as I have GAP insurance on theft why would I care if someone stole it? Its completely replaceable. Now, if you had a car that was semi classic or had some real uniqueness that made it not easily replaceable that is a whole 'nother matter. I had a very unique Mazda RX7....I had a kill switch installed and hid it behind the console where only I knew where the button was....and without that it was difficult. But if a thief wants your ride....they will get it regardless....
In my particular case, having a stolen vehicle potentially replaced because it either completely disappeared, or was totaled isn’t what makes me protect it...it’s the fact it could be found and returned in such a damaged/repairable state that the vehicle would never be the same even after repaired. Fighting with an insurance company as to what is and is not totaled is a pain in the @ss. Been there.
 

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This is fairly goofy. Put your fob in a pouch or a grounded cage and your car will still transspond and start and such. The waves get through, Maybe Farady was working with the AM radio band, 1000 thousand cycles a second and a wavelength of 300 meters. The fob and cell phone use a different animal with different characteristics. The 100 million cycle wave with a wavelength of fractions of a centimeter goes through your silly cage as if it weren't there, better to wear a tinfoil hat to scare the thieves away.
Actually, I have a keybox in my garage that I store my Jeep, Motorcycle and backup house keys in. The box is bolted to a massive support timber that would likely split a car in half it it rammed it. I keep my keys in the garage because it's too much of a pain to go all the way into the house to get my fob or motorcycle key if I'm working outside and realize I need to run to the home center for materials - or just want to grab a quick ride after work.

The box is copper lined (multiple layers) and I cannot get my Jeep to respond to the fob when the box is closed. If I open the door of the box even the slightest bit, the jeep will unlock when I grab the door handle. As a test, I stuck my cell phone in there and called it. It went right to voice mail saying it was unavailable.

On the other hand, I placed the fob in the kitchen which looks out on the garage. The car responded to it all the way out in the garage with no issue.

The key (no pun intended) is you need enough material with no gaps (even around the hinges), so a copper mesh won't do it. Meshes will only block things like GPS and WiFi signals.

The materials to line the box were less than $20, so it was worth it. If you don't want to do what I did, just place the key somewhere in your house where the car can't detect it. It may not be the furthest room. radio waves can bounce in weird ways. It might detect your key in your master bedroom on the far side of the house because the signal bounces off your backyard shed. You never know.

The reason I went through the extra effort is I have a standalone garage that has windows on each side wall. That means the garage really isn't going to keep much of anyone out that wants in - and I might not know they're breaking in a window from inside the house. For me, the garage is really to keep the vehicles out of sight, and reduce the temptation.

There are a lot of Jeeps around here of various model years and I am amazed how often I see vehicles left running in front of stores and other public places. I always shut off the vehicle, lock the doors and take my key fob with me. I let the other vehicles play interference for me.

It's not about making your vehicle impossible to steal. It's about making sure it's harder to steal than someone else's. It's like the old "I don't have to outrun the bear - I just have to outrun you" thing.
 
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