Interesting story about the pre/post bankruptcy Chrysler which focuses a lot on JNAP and the Wk2 JGC.
How U.S. Workers Rebuilt an Industry - Bloomberg
How U.S. Workers Rebuilt an Industry - Bloomberg
JGC and rebirth of Chrsyler
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I read the article. However, Chrysler faces big challenges in the future to remain viable. Biggest is dealing with Sergio and Fiat. Also Chrysler needs to have more product out there. Chrysler's biggest problem right now is quality and reliability. They need to make that their first priority and not turning out large quantities of GCs and Rams.
Finally who cares about Alfa. I like Alfas and wouldnt mind having a 2000GTV.
But its a niche vehicle and will have difficulty competing with BMW, VW, Audi, Mini et al. How many customers born after 1985 even know what an Alfa Romeo is?
Thanks for posting the article.
Finally who cares about Alfa. I like Alfas and wouldnt mind having a 2000GTV.
But its a niche vehicle and will have difficulty competing with BMW, VW, Audi, Mini et al. How many customers born after 1985 even know what an Alfa Romeo is?
Thanks for posting the article.
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Interesting article...I thought it was funny that the reason we have some LEDs in the 2014 is because Marchionne kept asking "Where are the Leds!" when he first saw the redesign.
My biggest issue with that article is stating that Chrysler dumped an AMC rough and tumble jeep and instead designed the GC. The GC design was DONE at AMC well before its release. In fact Iacocca delayed the release of the GC to concentrate on the next gen mini vans.
To give Chrysler credit for the design is flat out wrong...
To give Chrysler credit for the design is flat out wrong...
Did AMC have clean hands?
Design Debate - Who's the father of the Jeep Grand Cherokee? | News & Analysis content from WardsAuto
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+1 to the WK2 being a critical part of the Chryco resurrection, I'm pleasantly surprised that my first gen early build is going strong and will be a keeper
+1 to the JNAP Props despite a few beer burps along the way
As has been covered on this board many times previously, IMO the Germans deserve some meaningful credit for elevating the WK2 ie: Daimler Chrysler era and the metric bolts seen throughout this rig. Let's not lose that, eh Italia?
Note the commentary below the article. There is still a bunch of warranted angst about UAW, U.S. Taxpayer bridge financing, current low wage rates, and reliability.
+1 to the JNAP Props despite a few beer burps along the way
As has been covered on this board many times previously, IMO the Germans deserve some meaningful credit for elevating the WK2 ie: Daimler Chrysler era and the metric bolts seen throughout this rig. Let's not lose that, eh Italia?
Note the commentary below the article. There is still a bunch of warranted angst about UAW, U.S. Taxpayer bridge financing, current low wage rates, and reliability.
In particular, software reliability, which is below Windows 1.0 in thought, concept, and execution, with reliability below that low mark.
The suspension of the GC is a gift from Daimler, as is the ZF transmission(s), improved handling etc. all as from the nextgen ML series.
So Fiat added the LEDs. Allegedly Sergio also dictated a drastic improvement in
the interior design as well, plus the diesel is an Italian not from the inventing company.
Meanwhile, although it is a poor man's Mercedes, the 300 is getting rather long in
the tooth and overdue for a redesign. It really should have been in the market position of the Cadillac CTS and -V by now which are out-BMWing the BMW, but
was created and in Chrysler fashion allowed to languish.
We won't mention the 200, as hopefully those will be rebadged as fiats and sold in fourth world companies.
The Dart? Well, if thats what Alfa is selling these days as sedans/coupes, yikes!!!!
A Fiat sedan from the mid-90s would kick its keister on the autostrada.
The GC is quite profitable--which is good, but also bad in that a tiny change in the
market that drops semi-lux SUVs into the toilet again would risk yet another crash.
It honestly does need some real technocrap added to the Hemi to keep it alive and a turbo-V6 with direct injection and all the other bells and whistles would not be a bad
thing to have across the entire line.
It sucks that the Dodge Dart is an emasculated Alfa that itself did not have much to get emasculated, rather than bringing in the Alfa with a euro suspension [kids these days actually do know what handling is] and stuffing the V6 into it to make an American car. I think you could make a real pocket rocket out of that combo.
The 200, well, just take it out behind the barn.
I'd expect the Durango to outsell the GC, although not as profitably, but it is as nice as the Exploder and still has real capabilities unlike the Exploder.
Even the Abarth Fiat 500 needs just a bit more testosterone...wonder what the biggest Mopar engine is that could be stuffed into one--as the current one is pretty much a "nice" car where that pretty much means secretary special.
The incoming Alfa isn't going to do a lot to revive the brand's reputation--its an Italian Lotus, with all of the worst properties of both brands. Maybe the Mazda-Alfa will do better, but Alfa itself is no longer the brand it was in Italy. Maserati appears to be where the near-exotic designers have landed.
A Hennessy Challenger would be nice, but I'd rather see a Hennessy 300, Hennessy non-SRT GC, a Hennessy Cherokee, etc. and a Dart and Fiat with some real beanpower myself.
Yea I have seen the Shinoda stuff before. Actually there used to be an amazing site that had many different Shinoda drawings and clays of the GC way before the Chrysler era, unfortunately it got taken down and along with it all that material.
AMC might have stole the styling from Shinoda, but the engineering of the vehicle and its mechanical components was all AMC. (As was a major portion of the LH sedans, and some of the PL (Neon)) Hell the Viper was a science project to see if the AMC way of using teams for design would work at Chrysler.
ZF trans was a smart way to keep the jeep relevant, and the reason i bought one.
This story was already written under the Daimler days, Fiat really just lucked out with the sequence of events.To me this current era seems like a realization of an earlier plan. Nothing really new here. To really believe things have turned I want to see the next remodels. Is jeep still going to be using the current WK2 underpinnings, as mercedes puts out a totally new chasis?
This story was already written under the Daimler days, Fiat really just lucked out with the sequence of events.To me this current era seems like a realization of an earlier plan. Nothing really new here. To really believe things have turned I want to see the next remodels. Is jeep still going to be using the current WK2 underpinnings, as mercedes puts out a totally new chasis?
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This was commented on awhile back in another thread, I believe...while there are some design underpinnings in the current platform that were derived from a MB platform, it's a ''Jeep" design. For the next generation, they could choose to do something completely new or keep whatever they want from the current generation.
ZF *based* transmissions came into the picture AFTER Daimler, actually it started during the Cerberus days. Nobody can give Fiat credit for this, or the original 2011 WK. It was done to save development costs, nothing more as Cerberus was too cheap to invest any more money past what they spent to buy Chrysler in the first place. Cerberus thought that maybe eventually sales would rise and they could sell Chrysler and make a quick buck. That didn't happen like they wanted it to.
I did NOT know that Lee Iacocca wanted a Dodge "Grand Cherokee". Yuck!
AMC and Chrysler BOTH had their hands in the cookie jar with the ZJ Grand Cherokee. As we all should know, it was INTENDED to replace the XJ *but* Chrysler was still selling Cherokees so they decided LATER to make it more upscale. See the early ZJs, with stick shifts, etc. (Was there a model with manual windows? Wouldn't surprise me...) From what I have heard, the original AMC model interior was a total piece of garbage not worthy of what the ZJ would become later. So Chrysler massaged it into what we saw in 1992. I have NOT seen the original interior BUT like I said, I heard it was terrible.
Regarding the Dodge Dart...
Alfa Romeo Giulietta DERIVED platform and a *few* parts. That's it with that one too.
Tristar, I know exactly what site you are talking about but can't for the life of me remember the address...
Regarding the 2011 WK and its relation to the Mercedes M-Class... collaborative development started off great, but later the two groups split as they had two way different ideas for what the vehicles needed.
... and this co-development goes back to the 2005 WK and 2006 ML too...
I did NOT know that Lee Iacocca wanted a Dodge "Grand Cherokee". Yuck!
AMC and Chrysler BOTH had their hands in the cookie jar with the ZJ Grand Cherokee. As we all should know, it was INTENDED to replace the XJ *but* Chrysler was still selling Cherokees so they decided LATER to make it more upscale. See the early ZJs, with stick shifts, etc. (Was there a model with manual windows? Wouldn't surprise me...) From what I have heard, the original AMC model interior was a total piece of garbage not worthy of what the ZJ would become later. So Chrysler massaged it into what we saw in 1992. I have NOT seen the original interior BUT like I said, I heard it was terrible.
Regarding the Dodge Dart...
Alfa Romeo Giulietta DERIVED platform and a *few* parts. That's it with that one too.
Tristar, I know exactly what site you are talking about but can't for the life of me remember the address...
Regarding the 2011 WK and its relation to the Mercedes M-Class... collaborative development started off great, but later the two groups split as they had two way different ideas for what the vehicles needed.
... and this co-development goes back to the 2005 WK and 2006 ML too...
I'm not sure who deserves more credit MB or Fiat, but from what I've seen, most of the chassis, suspension, etc resembles the MB.
MB has a 7 speed tranny and not 8.
On the interior MB is notorious in saving all the really good staff for its S class, so they would have been a pain to work with, but dash and interior do resemble GL.
In any case I love that we can buy American again and feel good about it.
And for those who knock down Fiat, let's remember they do own Ferrari and Maserati, technically superb cars with implacable chassis suspension interior engine , etc, etc. So if they get the good stuff from the Italians and keep the American design cues in, the future will be good.
Traded an MB S550 for my JGC Overland 2012 and love it.
Picking up a 2014 Durango tomorrow that I trade a GL for.
Meanwhile waiting for the new Wagoneer, and the hellcat engine, and building a bigger garage
MB has a 7 speed tranny and not 8.
On the interior MB is notorious in saving all the really good staff for its S class, so they would have been a pain to work with, but dash and interior do resemble GL.
In any case I love that we can buy American again and feel good about it.
And for those who knock down Fiat, let's remember they do own Ferrari and Maserati, technically superb cars with implacable chassis suspension interior engine , etc, etc. So if they get the good stuff from the Italians and keep the American design cues in, the future will be good.
Traded an MB S550 for my JGC Overland 2012 and love it.
Picking up a 2014 Durango tomorrow that I trade a GL for.
Meanwhile waiting for the new Wagoneer, and the hellcat engine, and building a bigger garage
Just because it resembles it doesn't mean that it is the same.
What a fantastic read, all Australian car workers should read it, and lean, then maybe GM Holden would not be shutting down in this country..
I brought a fantastic product, now I know why.
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Regards, Nigel
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WK2 GC 2012 Overland
True Blue, Saddle Trim
Hemi 5.7 V8
Tow Pack
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I brought a fantastic product, now I know why.
__________________
Regards, Nigel
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WK2 GC 2012 Overland
True Blue, Saddle Trim
Hemi 5.7 V8
Tow Pack
=====================
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Question is the long term viability of Chrysler and Jeep? Also GM and possibly Ford. Economy is doing okay for now. But you never know.
Problem is you cant trust Fiat and gawd nows the Italian govt to be anything but corrupt and inept.
2014 WK2 shows what can go wrong when Chrysler/Jeep and Sergio dont do their homework.
Fiat is the problem since they have never built a reliable and dependable vehicle of any type ever!
Problem is you cant trust Fiat and gawd nows the Italian govt to be anything but corrupt and inept.
2014 WK2 shows what can go wrong when Chrysler/Jeep and Sergio dont do their homework.
Fiat is the problem since they have never built a reliable and dependable vehicle of any type ever!
It may not be a copy of a MB, but the base chasis, suspension geometry, and design methodology are all there. Just a visual comparison would show that. All the rest of the parts that bolt on would account for a small percentage of the overall experience.
It is a great vehicle, and is currently very much up to date. All Im saying is ill agree with a chrysler/jeep rebound, when a new ground up redesign comes out and they are still at the top.
It is a great vehicle, and is currently very much up to date. All Im saying is ill agree with a chrysler/jeep rebound, when a new ground up redesign comes out and they are still at the top.
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I feel the same way too. And hmmmm, where did those headrests come from and window switches come from? Mercedes has the same exact ones in like every one of their cars
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