Jeep Garage  - Jeep Forum banner

21 - 37 of 37 Posts

·
Premium Member
Grand Cherokee
Joined
·
806 Posts
Discussion Starter #21
I hate all of the grey/silver cars out there. Here's the best photo I have of our Black Forest green Jeep on a rare sunny winter day in Oregon when she was less than a month old. One time we were checking into a hotel and the parking lot attendants were arguing about whether to mark it down as black or green since it was late evening sun where it really depends on which side you are looking at.
It kinda looks black......but then again maybe not! Interesting color!

220373
 

·
Registered
Grand Cherokee
Joined
·
2,822 Posts
This brings up something I've been wondering. Has anyone else noticed the lack of color options from just about all of the car companies lately?
I've "complained" about it quite a few times. It's frustrating. Unless you select one of the few "sporty" or "specialty" (like Wrangler) vehicles, it's primarily "shades of grey" with a few muted other colors thrown in. There's also a distinct lack of non-metallic colors other than on those same special vehicles.
I'm going to guess this is the combination of regulation and industry trends.....

The EPA has regulated vehicle painting at factory's to the point the manufacturers literally have to use water as the paint solvent..... (the solvents in the paint that evaporate create a lot of air pollution) ....the paint companies have done their best, but their processes to meet these regs end up being the choke point in the assembly line.... ....and in the past the Manufacturers cut corners on the paint processes that took too long.... ....and most of you can remember the 80's-90's that many models had a rash of paint failures, entire hoods or body panels having paint peel away.....

I think I read somewhere, that factory paint process has become so excruciating complex to meet the EPA regs, that there are different processes for each color to the point of different tooling and calibrations for the robots and spray guns..... ....it very well can be some colors slow down the assembly line and increase costs more than other colors...

I don't know that for a fact, but it would explain why some colors only come on the lower volume higher end Trim Levels / Models......

The whole industry has gone to greater economy of scale and more automation, if they made cars today the way they did in the 60's and 70's a WK2 would cost a $150k.... .....the whole industry has gone to large assembly runs of one configuration of a model, dealers order in volume for a discount, they want the model/trim/options the market research sells the best..... ....if you want to order a vehicle, notice how you have to wait 6 months, sometimes as much as a year before you'll get the vehicle, they have to wait until one of the Assembly runs of that specific configuration, with the combination of options you ordered is done.....

So, the industry is pretty cookie cutter, for the least cost per unit (since their profit is so slim) they churn out as many as they can in the shortest amount of time (time is money) that will sell the most.... ....a few of the colors probably slow down the process enough, they have to eliminate them from those mass quantity production runs....

Heck, I could be totally off, and they might reserve the most brilliant color for the most expensive models just to entice customers into spending more, it might be that simple...........
 

·
Registered
Grand Cherokee
Joined
·
2,822 Posts
And this popped up in my image search, not my style, but some might like it.....
I think the color/finish name has the word Chameleon in it, since it changes color with the angle the light reflects off it.... ...the finish uses mica chips to create the effect.... ...apparently its available in vinyl wrap.....
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,235 Posts
The EPA has regulated vehicle painting at factory's to the point the manufacturers literally have to use water as the paint solvent..
This is technically untrue. The solvent isn't water. Water is the reducer/carrier. That permits using the minimum amount of actual solvents in the finish formula (which are different than the solvents in older generations of auto paint) so they can meet VOC regulation. This is the nature of all water borne finishes. Current generations of water borne finishes are really good, too, and many shops actually like them to their own surprise. I had a conversation with a local supplier to the industry recently and the majority of the shops they supply have converted over outside of some specialty finishes. They get the safety and high quality they expect. These finishes, however, are unfortunately more expensive in some cases.
 

·
Registered
Grand Cherokee
Joined
·
2,822 Posts
This is technically untrue. The solvent isn't water. Water is the reducer/carrier. That permits using the minimum amount of actual solvents in the finish formula (which are different than the solvents in older generations of auto paint) so they can meet VOC regulation. This is the nature of all water borne finishes. Current generations of water borne finishes are really good, too, and many shops actually like them to their own surprise. I had a conversation with a local supplier to the industry recently and the majority of the shops they supply have converted over outside of some specialty finishes. They get the safety and high quality they expect. These finishes, however, are unfortunately more expensive in some cases.
Thank You, I did not understand the different aspects of the paint process. I almost wanted to say its water based paint which isn't true, I said solvent which I agree isn't right either, but it uses water as part of the system to apply a coating on the vehicle, reducer/carrier and water borne all sound familiar and make sense.... ....I couldn't tell you the difference between a reducer and a solvent, so I lost a little in translation in describing the system....

What is still true in my statement, is it is EPA regulation forcing the Manufacturers to change to more complex painting systems that has downsides, the years of every manufacturer having a certain model or certain color that would peel away within 3 years is proof of that. And as I understand it, it was more the manufacturers fault than the paint suppliers/system designers, the paint process was taking too long and the Manufacturers were cutting corners....

I 'think', but don't know, certain pigments work better with others in these systems, so there are colors that are more expensive or time consuming (which is way more expensive in terms of an assembly line) than others and thus might explain the lists of colors....

Another factor, since the EPA continually is raising the bar on the regulations, I've read they are switching to new Paint systems every couple of years, its not hard to imagine they are working with the supplier/designer of the system with all the aspects in consideration, like not suffering slow downs on the assembly line and not having massive paint failure warranty claims, and come up with a palette of colors that meets all the requirements that they can provide the manufacturers.....

i.e. its not an FCA committee that just picks a dozen colors they like or market research says will sell best.... ....it's the paint suppliers telling FCA for your Belvidere facility that you contracted us to upgrade the paint stations, to meet EPA reg 123456.abc from 2017 thru 2021, we've come up with these colors that can be completed within 2 hours and be assured not to peel away within 10 years.... ...we know you asked for brilliant poppy red, but the best we can do is a 3 hour process that costs twice as much in supplies, so that might be only for your low volume, top end, high cost production runs at the factory.....
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,235 Posts
Honestly, I think the color choices are determined more by the market. As much as so many of us don't like the "shades of grey", conservative colors just plain sell more and easier. The vehicle manufacturers are certainly capable of offering more interesting colors...they do so on some vehicles already, such as Jeep with some great colors for the Wrangler and Subaru with some on the Crosstrek. They can do it if they want to, but for some reason indicators say that they will sell more vehicles in grays. Personally, I'm tired of most of the colors being metalics or "pearl coats", too...and think that some of the non-metalic/pearl colors out there of a few vehicles are really awesome looking. Just pure color.
 

·
Premium Member
Grand Cherokee
Joined
·
806 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
I don't know the technical aspects of paint but I've noticed certain colors hold up better than others. Red and silver are the worst and are prone to fading after about 6 or 7 years. (especially in direct sunlight) Black gets so hot you'll get burnt if you touch it. I've owned black vehicles they get to 128 degrees inside (FL sun) That will melt plastic trim and shorten the life of the speakers etc. White is the most practical color it doesn't fade, get to hot and you don't see scratches. It's also easy to maintain. I think these factors have to be considered when choosing a color!
 

·
Registered
Grand Cherokee
Joined
·
2,822 Posts
Red has always been the worst color for fading and UV damage, its simply a matter of the color, to produce red light the paint and its pigment has to absorb more light a broader band of frequencies for a greater total energy than other colors...... ....black also..... ....silver, I've noticed the same thing for at least some shades of silver, I'd have to look it up, but I'd think silver would reflect more light than other colors....
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,235 Posts
It's not the color so much as the specific pigments, etc., used to generate a particular color. Some are more susceptible to UV fade than others and a few colors don't have many (and sometimes any) options for more durability. If you look at a set of tinting dyes, for example, you'll see that some will be listed as UV fade resistant and some will not.
 

·
Premium Member
Grand Cherokee
Joined
·
806 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
It's not the color so much as the specific pigments, etc., used to generate a particular color. Some are more susceptible to UV fade than others and a few colors don't have many (and sometimes any) options for more durability. If you look at a set of tinting dyes, for example, you'll see that some will be listed as UV fade resistant and some will not.
Being my vehicles are not garaged the fading issue is more important to me than the actual color itself. Especially now that I've decided to keep the Jeep until the extended contract is up which will be 7 years.
 

·
Registered
Grand Cherokee
Joined
·
2,822 Posts
The pigment is what makes paints different colors...... ....and they probably have to tailor the paint to complement the particular pigment as well..... ....so the pigments and dyes and their quality is a factor....

But to produce a certain color to the human eye, requires the object of that color to absorb/attenuate certain frequencies of light and then emit/reflect certain frequencies of light.... ....UV is invisible to the human eye but part of the light spectrum, but certain colors also absorb reflect UV different ways as well, and the UV is damaging to paint...

This is why Black gets much hotter in the sun than White....

Red, for a paint to appear red requires it to absorb the broadest spectrum of high energy light, that breaks down the paint faster than other colors.... ....whether that just the pigments or the other parts of the paint or both..... ....I've seen red paint that other than the fading of the color, the paint coating looked fine.... ....I've also seen red paint that as well as faded the clear coat was damaged or gone and the color coat oxidized..... ....the pigment may be the root cause, but its part of the overall paint system that can be damaged by the extra light energy as well.....
 

·
Registered
2012 Grand Cherokee Overland 5.7L
Joined
·
20 Posts
I wasnt a fan when looking into buying our jeep but the white gold is growing on me. I plan on doing accents in a dark bronze and dechroming most of it. Its really metallic and looks really good to me. Once you get used to it. I also kinda consider it a rare color. I have only seen a few wk2 in this color.
220604
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
653 Posts
Honestly, I think the color choices are determined more by the market. As much as so many of us don't like the "shades of grey", conservative colors just plain sell more and easier. The vehicle manufacturers are certainly capable of offering more interesting colors...they do so on some vehicles already, such as Jeep with some great colors for the Wrangler and Subaru with some on the Crosstrek. They can do it if they want to, but for some reason indicators say that they will sell more vehicles in grays. Personally, I'm tired of most of the colors being metalics or "pearl coats", too...and think that some of the non-metalic/pearl colors out there of a few vehicles are really awesome looking. Just pure color.
I’m not so sure Jim. As you know I have the ivory tri pearl and it really gives that color a certain depth. Living in SW Florida I have to stay with the lighter colors but I really like this one. The bright white on the other hand looks like a refrigerator to me. I know the Rhino and other variations of gray are really popular right now but I personally don’t care for it. Looks flat to me but I’m probably in the minority.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,235 Posts
It's definitely subjective, John. I don't live in Florida but still prefer the light colors. :) (Although I'm about to make my fourth visit for the year...checking in on my 89 yo kid/mom) One of our vehicles has a finish similar to the Jeep Ivory Tri-Color and it certainly looks nice. That said, I really do think that the market could embrace more colors like I mentioned...and most of what I'm thinking of are actually lighter colors. They just don't have the "sparkle" in them which makes them appear more "creamy" nice. :) My point was also that if they can offer them on some vehicles, why not on others...
 
21 - 37 of 37 Posts
Top