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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
So I just fired up the engine, and ran out of gas :mad: got a couple gallons in a can. Ran the engine for 10 minutes, the oil pan was bone dry. Ran it another 20 minutes, and its starting to drip oil, much better than before, but still leaking. Its not leaking from the bolt hole, its now coming out the seem between engine and pan.
 

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I tried looking everywhere I dont have the hard copy anymore. I will ask my friend if he can get me the TSB number or if he could print me a copy in the next day or so. It does exist though becuase I had printed it out for the delaer but they still had refused. Long story short I go to a different dealer now and they are fixing last dealers mistakes.
 

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2014 Summit 5.7 4wd 20" tires swapped to 18", added all skid plates
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I wonder if those bolts are supposed to be a one-time use? Perhaps that metal collar part will crush on first use and adequately seat the pan and gasket but if reused they no longer squeeze things tight enough.
 

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After thinking about this for a while i came up with these 'could be wild ass'd guess' scenarios.
It could be using a gasket sealant could sort of bond the gasket to the sides of the channel instead of letting the soft rubber gasket seat itself to the bottom of the channel which could allow tiny air bubbles when the sealant is still in its uncured state.
Once the hot oil bursts those tiny air bubbles with the sealant now hard cured the oil starts to flow through and snow balls from there.

Or,
the soft rubber gasket 'gives' allowing air bubbles to form easier when the pan bolts are torqued.

Or,
There's only a few cements/sealants that will bond to rubber and silicon if thats what the gasket is made of.
Again all wild ass'd guesses.

By the way when i order parts on line i first contact the store's cust. service by telephone to make sure i get the right part for the right vehicle and also any other information (Rockauto excluded with no cust. service).

This especially applies to summitracing.com with a somewhat awkward website to find parts.
You still might try contacting them by telephone then let them know the situation.
In the past if they didn't have the part, they pointed me to someone who does or in one case they special ordered the part.
They also carry Mopar pans which might be cheaper than the stealership if they can get yours.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I wonder if those bolts are supposed to be a one-time use? Perhaps that metal collar part will crush on first use and adequately seat the pan and gasket but if reused they no longer squeeze things tight enough.
I have not seen anything about that. But its possible. At the same time, the bolts that leak, I tightened down more on those bolts and it still leaks just as much.

After thinking about this for a while i came up with these 'could be wild ass'd guess' scenarios.
It could be using a gasket sealant could sort of bond the gasket to the sides of the channel instead of letting the soft rubber gasket seat itself to the bottom of the channel which could allow tiny air bubbles when the sealant is still in its uncured state.
Once the hot oil bursts those tiny air bubbles with the sealant now hard cured the oil starts to flow through and snow balls from there.

Or,
the soft rubber gasket 'gives' allowing air bubbles to form easier when the pan bolts are torqued.

Or,
There's only a few cements/sealants that will bond to rubber and silicon if thats what the gasket is made of.
Again all wild ass'd guesses.

By the way when i order parts on line i first contact the store's cust. service by telephone to make sure i get the right part for the right vehicle and also any other information (Rockauto excluded with no cust. service).

This especially applies to summitracing.com with a somewhat awkward website to find parts.
You still might try contacting them by telephone then let them know the situation.
In the past if they didn't have the part, they pointed me to someone who does or in one case they special ordered the part.
They also carry Mopar pans which might be cheaper than the stealership if they can get yours.
I think you're barking up the wrong tree with the RTV. The FSM states and shows exactly where and how to apply the RTV, which I did, the gasket in the area where you apply the RTV is different and clearly designed that way to work with the RTV. It is not leaking from the RTV area, its leaking in other areas.

scittb says there is a TSB out saying you can't re-use the pan once removed. His experience supports that, my experience supports that.

I tried washers on the oil pan bolts, and redid the RTV on the bolts I applied RTV. It didn't work, well maybe a little, the oil leak seems to be less. I drove an hour tonight and I can't see a difference in oil level on the dipstick, the pan is wet with oil but only a few drips. So I'm taking a 5qt Jug of oil and funnel with me on my trip tomorrow and stopping and checking frequently.

I'm thinking of going with a Dorman aftermarket oil pan. Dorman has not failed me yet, the price is way better than Mopar, even Mopar at a discount.
 

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I have yet to see a bulletin stating it's a disposable oil pan, but at this point, I'm with ya Mongo....I'd scrap that thing and score a Dorman.
 
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I have not seen anything about that. But its possible. At the same time, the bolts that leak, I tightened down more on those bolts and it still leaks just as much.


I think you're barking up the wrong tree with the RTV. The FSM states and shows exactly where and how to apply the RTV, which I did, the gasket in the area where you apply the RTV is different and clearly designed that way to work with the RTV. It is not leaking from the RTV area, its leaking in other areas.

scittb says there is a TSB out saying you can't re-use the pan once removed. His experience supports that, my experience supports that.

I tried washers on the oil pan bolts, and redid the RTV on the bolts I applied RTV. It didn't work, well maybe a little, the oil leak seems to be less. I drove an hour tonight and I can't see a difference in oil level on the dipstick, the pan is wet with oil but only a few drips. So I'm taking a 5qt Jug of oil and funnel with me on my trip tomorrow and stopping and checking frequently.

I'm thinking of going with a Dorman aftermarket oil pan. Dorman has not failed me yet, the price is way better than Mopar, even Mopar at a discount.
I have not seen anything about that. But its possible. At the same time, the bolts that leak, I tightened down more on those bolts and it still leaks just as much.


I think you're barking up the wrong tree with the RTV. The FSM states and shows exactly where and how to apply the RTV, which I did, the gasket in the area where you apply the RTV is different and clearly designed that way to work with the RTV. It is not leaking from the RTV area, its leaking in other areas.

scittb says there is a TSB out saying you can't re-use the pan once removed. His experience supports that, my experience supports that.

I tried washers on the oil pan bolts, and redid the RTV on the bolts I applied RTV. It didn't work, well maybe a little, the oil leak seems to be less. I drove an hour tonight and I can't see a difference in oil level on the dipstick, the pan is wet with oil but only a few drips. So I'm taking a 5qt Jug of oil and funnel with me on my trip tomorrow and stopping and checking frequently.

I'm thinking of going with a Dorman aftermarket oil pan. Dorman has not failed me yet, the price is way better than Mopar, even Mopar at a discount.
Yeah like i said all wild ass'd guesses sort of based on every housing half i took apart with a rubber O-ring gasket that required no gasket sealant only a smearing of grease. But that hemi oil pan is obviously a different animal with an unusual gasket setup.

Then one of the last variables left is a cracked/warped one time use pan as suspected.
Based on the washers working a little better might also want to order new pan bolts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 · (Edited)
Like I said, I have put RTV on gaskets that said to install dry and sure enough it leaked. Redid it according to the instructions and it never leaked. So yes, I'd agree that RTV that is inappropriate could cause a leak. Think of these 4 beads of RTV called for in the FSM as the same as putting the small bead of RTV in the sharp corners of gaskets called for by the FSM.

So I drove 250 miles today, I lost about 1/2 a quart. So definitely leaking but not enough that I can't get around.

I appears a new pan comes with all new bolts. Which is good, because I can't find the bolts for less than $10, all new bolts would cost more than a new pan....

There is a weird thing about some new pans coming with only 20 of the 21 bolts. I guess some applications don't use a bolt in one of the holes. Seen posts were folks say they were short one bolt and had to re-use one of the old bolts. I'll purchase one new bolt with the pan.
 

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So my friend today whom is fixing my jeep informed me the pan needs to be replaced when there is an engine swap due to the oil pickup being molded into the bottom of the plastic pan. You cant clean it out. So when he did mine today not only did the other dealer use my old pan he used the original o ring gasket and was even rolled in a couple of spots. On top of that they didnt even bother adding the sealent in the 4 corners. Gonna try to grab the TSB number on friday.
 

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Never thought removing and replacing some these modern plastic oil pans would this big a PITA.
With the old school metal pans just clean any sealant off the pan and block, add new sealant and gasket...... done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 · (Edited)
So my friend today whom is fixing my jeep informed me the pan needs to be replaced when there is an engine swap due to the oil pickup being molded into the bottom of the plastic pan. You cant clean it out. So when he did mine today not only did the other dealer use my old pan he used the original o ring gasket and was even rolled in a couple of spots. On top of that they didnt even bother adding the sealent in the 4 corners. Gonna try to grab the TSB number on friday.
Yea, the FSM and every instruction I've seen specifically states to replace the gasket and O-ring when re-installing the pan.

Yes, the pickup is molded in the pan, and the pan is several pieces and appears to be cemented together and thus can not be taken apart. So you can't get to the pick-up that has baffles and a windage tray above it. To be honest, and a little gross, after cleaned my pan, I put my mouth over the pick-up tube and sucked and blew as hard as I could. No sign of obstruction and debris at all, sprayed compressed air as well. Yes, it would be better to actually see the pick-up, but if mine had any debri the compressed air would have some of it flying out of the pan if it was there.

Never thought removing and replacing some these modern plastic oil pans would this big a PITA.
With the old school metal pans just clean any sealant off the pan and block, add new sealant and gasket...... done.
Actually, the metal pans are worse with 4WD. The plastic pan has the pick-up molded in it. The metal pans have a separate metal pick-up tube that is so long it has to bolt down for support farther down the length of the tube.

So the plastic pan, you just have to drop it down an inch and you can slide it out from under the engine. With a metal oil pan, you have to the drop the oil pan down a foot to clear the pick-up tube, which means you can only drop it directly down. Which means you have no other option than remove the front drivetrain to change the oil pan, while the plastic pan you have another option.

Although the only option according to the FSM is to drop the whole front subframe as you hold the engine up from above, just to change the oil pan. I suspect FCA has a special cradle or tool to drop the sub-frame, with all the special tools I could see how you could do the job faster dropping the sub-frame, less things to unbolt and remove. You don't need to do that if you're DIY. I've already proven if you pull the radiator sandwich and crank damper you can pull the oil pan out from underneath the engine.
 
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