Michelin Defender LTX M/S vs Nokian WRG3 SUV
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The better tire of the two in snow is going to be the WRG3 if thats your primary goal. But if you want a little snow ability and a little off road ability the defender is probably a better mix of the two. Both ok on road but defender will probably be a little quieter from what i have read. Both are great tires i think you have narrowed it down well for the all season category. Slanted to snow=WRG3. Off road/snow balance, maybe a little quieter on road=Defender
I changed my fortera's on my WK early and will change the fortera's on my wife's 2015 altitude early as well. These are the two tires I have narrowed it down to as well. I'll give the fortera's one winter then we will see. I will be following this thread
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Had the earlier version of the Michelin on my 2011 WK2... excellent mileage, quiet, good light snow and rain. Not good for ice or hard packed or wet snow.
Decided on WR G3 SUV for 2015 WK2 based on my use and having WR G2 on our 2012 Subaru. "Checked all the boxes" for me. 16,000 miles and one major winter behind me.
Decided on WR G3 SUV for 2015 WK2 based on my use and having WR G2 on our 2012 Subaru. "Checked all the boxes" for me. 16,000 miles and one major winter behind me.
How do you find the Nokian in the hot weather ??
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Well, low 90'sF is as hot as we get here in the Great Northeast usually. The tires were fine. I do realize that a tread compound that meets the "mountain/snowflake" symbol is not going to get the long mileage of the Michelin, but I am very pleased with the WR G3 SUV's so far. They are the true all season tire that people think they are getting when running the usual all seasons in the tire ads. Nokian therefore refers to them as "all weather" tires to different and highlight the fact.
I bought a set of 18" wheels off a 2015 purchase with the Michelin LTZ. I use them in Summers. I do just fine living in a snow vent if Lake Ontario with the stick wheels on the 2011 WK2 Limited with Sahara tires. I have 2 CR-Vs in the family garage. I chose Continental Cross touch which came stock on the 2013 and new Continental True Touch on the older 2005. I bought the Continentals this Summer because of many great reviews. This car is for my daughter so I wanted the best. Same with. brakes where I replaced front factory rotors with vented slotted and drilled heavy duty rotors with ceramic pads. Really driving in snow especially on hills is all about going slow and keeping momentum in line with the physics of snow or ice driving. I've lived in the Puget Sound area twice and learned snowy Winter driving in both the Sierra Nevadas up by Lake Tahoe and college at the University of Utah and the Wasatch range. I think you will do fine getting a decent all season, but if you prefer I could suggest a separate pair of wheels and dedicated Bridgestone Blizzaks for ice and snow. Those are fine on dry and icy roads during Winter. Good luck.
I am trying to make a decision on these two tire options as well. I live in Denver, so we get snow, but I got by fine on the stock Fortera's, so I'm not sure a more capable winter tire is necessarily needed.
Michelin is actually offering a $70 rebate right now, so they would actually end up being about $100 less than the Nokians.
Seems like a good all around tire, and the 70k warranty helps. So now I may be slightly leaning towards the Michelin and am willing to give up a little bit of winter ability. I still think the Michelin will handle quite well in snow when needed.
Michelin is actually offering a $70 rebate right now, so they would actually end up being about $100 less than the Nokians.
Seems like a good all around tire, and the 70k warranty helps. So now I may be slightly leaning towards the Michelin and am willing to give up a little bit of winter ability. I still think the Michelin will handle quite well in snow when needed.
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Should be fine. $100 is 2 gas fillups!
So you're recommending the Nokians eh? Are they just as quiet as the stock Forteras? I like the snow traction ability, but honestly I drive way more on pavement and will regret my decision if they are a bit noisy/annoying on a 2000 mile roadtrip...
The Nokians are not a noisy tire but will be slightly noisier than the Michelins which are very quiet, i discussed this with Nokian several months ago in emails and they actually referred me to the consumer reports noise ratings on the two tires. But the Nokian will be better on snow if that is your priority. Check the Mopar coupons they have on line, they do have buy 4 get one free deals if you have the tires done at the dealer. I had my dealer work me up a quote on the defenders and it was like $840 with the buy 4 get one free,
I trolled eBay for a few weeks. I found a Jeep/Dodge dealer that was selling new 2015 18" rims with sensors and Michelin rubber for $650 shipped. I quickly jumped all over that. Michelin for Summer on newer rims and Saharas on the original 2011 rims.
Of course if you are running with 20" rims and tires you are pretty limited. A grand may be a very decent price. I was having a hard time finding 18" tires for under $205/tire.
If you drive slow and smart with physics on your side Winter and snow doesn't necessarily mean your all seasons won't work well. Slow to stop and start remembering to keep your distances farther. We live in the Lake Ontario snowmelt. 2 miles from its South shore. It amazes me each year that so many people forget how to drive in snow. The first few storms see almost 10% of the cars knocked out either getting totaled or needing heavy collision repair. I take my time. I once was going about 15 miles an hour on the benches of the Wasatch mountain range in Salt Lake City. Very cold but sunny. Then the sun disappeared behind a cloud and some brutal cold wind blew by. I was in a Land Rover discovery as the road surface went to a sheet of solid ice. The antilock breaks just pulsed doing absolutely nothing. The down grade wasn't that steep, but I had just crossed over the ridge so all momentum going straight down. A full 90 curve was at the bottom. My speed started to increase as I futilely struggled with breaks and trying to downshift. My rover just kept going straight up and over grass and through a rod iron fence into a backyard. I was very upset as I approached the homeowners front door.
They weren't pissed. It happened at least one per Winter over the 6 years they lived there. Finally the HOA granted permission to place large barrier boulders, but no angling the road better. I was ticket doing 15 because of weather conditions. Sadly they were just fine before the sun disappeared and a wind colder than 15F de solved any impact previous salt had made. An expensive mistake. With only a $500/ deductible it was still about $8500 in body work and grill/headlight assembly and right fog lamp.
Slow and careful is the only way to drive in bad Winter areas. I'm sure the Colorado guy knows this all to well. Luckily it's pretty flat here until you get near the Finger Lakes further South. In those hills dedicated snow tires is a must.
Of course if you are running with 20" rims and tires you are pretty limited. A grand may be a very decent price. I was having a hard time finding 18" tires for under $205/tire.
If you drive slow and smart with physics on your side Winter and snow doesn't necessarily mean your all seasons won't work well. Slow to stop and start remembering to keep your distances farther. We live in the Lake Ontario snowmelt. 2 miles from its South shore. It amazes me each year that so many people forget how to drive in snow. The first few storms see almost 10% of the cars knocked out either getting totaled or needing heavy collision repair. I take my time. I once was going about 15 miles an hour on the benches of the Wasatch mountain range in Salt Lake City. Very cold but sunny. Then the sun disappeared behind a cloud and some brutal cold wind blew by. I was in a Land Rover discovery as the road surface went to a sheet of solid ice. The antilock breaks just pulsed doing absolutely nothing. The down grade wasn't that steep, but I had just crossed over the ridge so all momentum going straight down. A full 90 curve was at the bottom. My speed started to increase as I futilely struggled with breaks and trying to downshift. My rover just kept going straight up and over grass and through a rod iron fence into a backyard. I was very upset as I approached the homeowners front door.
They weren't pissed. It happened at least one per Winter over the 6 years they lived there. Finally the HOA granted permission to place large barrier boulders, but no angling the road better. I was ticket doing 15 because of weather conditions. Sadly they were just fine before the sun disappeared and a wind colder than 15F de solved any impact previous salt had made. An expensive mistake. With only a $500/ deductible it was still about $8500 in body work and grill/headlight assembly and right fog lamp.
Slow and careful is the only way to drive in bad Winter areas. I'm sure the Colorado guy knows this all to well. Luckily it's pretty flat here until you get near the Finger Lakes further South. In those hills dedicated snow tires is a must.
Thanks I will definitely check that out.
I definitely know what you mean. I always laugh when the roads are iced and I see that idiot in his jacked up pickup blowing through going about 3 times as fast as everyone else. And I always cross my fingers I will see him in the ditch 10 minutes down the road because when he tried to stop he realized absolutely nothing helps you slow down on ice besides a slow speed. Tires and 4 wheel drive help you get going, but they don't do shit for slowing down. Some people are just not smart.
This is great fun. I used to see it constantly driving up to Tahoe as guy in jacked up Toyotas would pass everybody else. Around the next bend they would be off the road on ye trucks side. Standing there looking puzzled.
Around here it's amazing through the first few storms. I installed a dash camera over 3 years back to catch these treasured moments and to have evidence of my car happened to be hit or somebody got hurt because of the moronic actions of an idiot. I bought a newer camera this year. The State Troopers that monitor the stretch of highway I frequent seem to pull over people they see passing my rig. They know I try to drive defensively and use caution. In snow packed roads I don't change lanes because some idiot hit the snooze bar too many times and thinks everybody should accommodate his laziness and thoughtlessness. How do you explain or apologize for injuring or killing others because you can't drive the proper speeds given the conditions.
We all travel on four patches of moving fire not much bigger that your opened hand. All side forces, accelerations and braking rely on these four spots working correctly. I try to drive to stay alive and hope I can avoid the moronic behavior of others. Now I'm just more proactive because I have full HD video and GPS data, if I see dangerous drivers in the roads our families use as well.
Just saying for about $120, it a worthwhile investment. I put them in all our vehicles this year with my daughter starting to drive.
Another option is the Toyo Celsius. Similar to the WRG3 with an M+S rating and 60K miles warranty. About $195 a tire for the 20".
First, Live in Baltimore metro area. last winter we had a very severe storm roll in and dump a very quick 6-12" of fairly fluffy snow (temps dropping from 31 to 25). I had taken my wife to visit her mother in hospice when it started around noon. We left at 4pm and by that time the beltway (I-695) was a parking lot and all of Baltimore was gridlocked, it just came down that hard and fast. I had to drive back roads to get home, about 25 miles north where the storm was even worse. I still had the original Forterra's with about 30k on them. My V-6 Overland was an absolute TANK and in all aspects. It stopped great, turned great, started from a dead stop on steep icy hills that other 4wd had lost control and spun out or could not move on. Hell I even had to go through a shallow ditch and into a field to go around a snarl of idiots. :lol: In snow mode it reads your mind. Just so you know I work as a manager for I-95 here in Md and have plowed snow for over 25 years in Dumps, Oshkoshes, tractors, loaders and pickups, so I do have more experience driving in it than most. But I also am very qualified in rating a vehicle in the snow and this GC is by far the BEST. Now onto the Michelins... I had a set of LTX A/S on my 2000 Ram 4x4 quad and they were excellent in the snow, so when I went looking for tires for my 2012 Ram 2500 Crew 4x4 I ended up with LTX MS/2's. They were also very good in snow but much quieter than the original A/S's and transformed the wet and dry handling, braking and ride quality by miles. So with the Forterra's wearing down I naturally looked at Michelins. At the time (about 3 months ago) the DEFENDER LTX M/S were not available in our 20" size so the only choices were LATITUDE TOUR HP and the PREMIER LTX. I noticed that the 2016's were going to use the Pirelli SCORPION VERDE ALL SEASON PLUS so I wasn't really sure what I would buy. I ended up waiting and bought the DEFENDER LTX M/S and am very happy I did. It has greatly improved the handling; ride, dry and wet handling, stopping and steering feel as well as expansion joints and bumps by a vey wide margin. I've put about 5000 miles on them so far. I cannot report on the snow/ice aspect yet. however the tread design is very close to the MS/2's and they were very good in snow and ice in a light rearend pickup and the snow aspect of the tire is reported by Michelin to be 20% better due to newer sipe technology. I can't imagine they will be anything but very good in the snow on the jeep. I read a lot about the Nokian tires but have zero experience with them. There is no doubt dedicated snow tires will outperform all seasons. The type you are asking about does have a longer tread life and is more for keeping on all year. Personally unless I lived where snow was on the road 4-6 months of the year, I would go with the all seasons on the jeep. Of course if money grew on trees I'd probably have a set of winter rims and tires in the garage. Wishful thinking. Good luck!
PS. The one thing I would love to see on the GC's is heated windshields, wipers and wiper fluid ala Mercedes. It is the ONLY issue driving these SNOW TANKS, period!
PS. The one thing I would love to see on the GC's is heated windshields, wipers and wiper fluid ala Mercedes. It is the ONLY issue driving these SNOW TANKS, period!
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