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Hi all, I have been browsing for a while but this is my first time posting.

About 3-4 months ago I got two new tires (goodyear all terrain with kevlar) versus four- I know this is not advised but two of them were fine, and two were completely worn. In either case, I went ahead and got the other two just a couple of weeks ago, which were installed in the front. Now all 4 tires are fairly new, but the front ones are newer. While I was at it, I got an alignment as well.

Previous to my newest front two tires, the car handled very well in most circumstances and I was very much comfortable driving however suddenly the car tends to oversteer at higher speeds, mostly on right hand turns only. I took it back to the shop, and my mechanic seemed stumped as if he could not understand what I was explaining, but it seems pretty straight forward to me. It is almost like the tires find a groove and over cut turns, so naturally I have to counter that which can be scary at high speed ntm it puts me on edge while driving. I am stumped that he was stumped. He said maybe it was something loose in the suspension?

Is this just the new tires gripping more than I am used to? Should I put the newer tires in the rear? They aren't even that much newer than the rear ones.. It is a factory 2016 with the quadra trac suspension/lift etc if that matters. Any insight is appreciated!
 

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Hi all, I have been browsing for a while but this is my first time posting.

About 3-4 months ago I got two new tires (goodyear all terrain with kevlar) versus four- I know this is not advised but two of them were fine, and two were completely worn. In either case, I went ahead and got the other two just a couple of weeks ago, which were installed in the front. Now all 4 tires are fairly new, but the front ones are newer. While I was at it, I got an alignment as well.

Previous to my newest front two tires, the car handled very well in most circumstances and I was very much comfortable driving however suddenly the car tends to oversteer at higher speeds, mostly on right hand turns only. I took it back to the shop, and my mechanic seemed stumped as if he could not understand what I was explaining, but it seems pretty straight forward to me. It is almost like the tires find a groove and over cut turns, so naturally I have to counter that which can be scary at high speed ntm it puts me on edge while driving. I am stumped that he was stumped. He said maybe it was something loose in the suspension?

Is this just the new tires gripping more than I am used to? Should I put the newer tires in the rear? They aren't even that much newer than the rear ones.. It is a factory 2016 with the quadra trac suspension/lift etc if that matters. Any insight is appreciated!
This is the reason you don't replace two tires instead of all four with 4x4 or AWD. First off there is a reason two tires wore out quicker than four. Most likely you didn't rotate them. You need to buy two more tires to match the ones you just bought. Then make sure they are all correctly balanced and get another alignment. Also check your front suspension for any wear or tear prior to the alignment. Thats your answer. Your two older tires don't match the two new tires in diameter.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
This is the reason you don't replace two tires instead of all four with 4x4 or AWD. First off there is a reason two tires were out quicker than four. Most likely you didn't rotate them. You need to buy two more tires to match the ones you just bought. Then make sure they are all correctly balanced and get another alignment. Also check your front suspension for any wear or tear prior to the alignment. Thats your answer. Your two older tires don't match the two new tires in diameter.
This is what I was afraid of hearing but do understand. I will say however that when I only replaced the rear tires a few months ago, this did not occur. Technically at that point the new rear tires and the old front ones had different diameters and there was no issue then. So I might still try putting the newest tires in the rear, since it wasn't an issue when I did that before and it could save me $500. Not ideal, but maybe worth a try.
 

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I agree with uscgmac, changing only a couple tires especially with a 4x4 vehicle is not recommended.
Rotating your tires in a timely manner would of prevented this.

Have you tried going into the setup menu and change the steering dynamics as a temporary solution?
 

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This is what I was afraid of hearing but do understand. I will say however that when I only replaced the rear tires a few months ago, this did not occur. Technically at that point the new rear tires and the old front ones had different diameters and there was no issue then. So I might still try putting the newest tires in the rear, since it wasn't an issue when I did that before and it could save me $500. Not ideal, but maybe worth a try.
Your not fixing the problem but only making it worse for the future. You cannot have different tires either way. You will eventually create more unnecessary wear and tear on your 4x4 system. The reason why you didn't notice before is because your rear tires are not steering your vehicle. You can do what you want but if I were you I'd go out and buy two more tires that match before you put anymore miles on them otherwise your still chasing your tail.
 

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No, I didnt realize there was such an option. What should i adjust? Thanks
That won't fix the problem, it will just change the feel of the steering to either softer or harder. Your only solution is 4 new tires and rotate them frequently. I understand your either trying to save money or don't have the money but it will cost you more in the long run if you neglect your propper vehicle maintenance.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
What were the old tires, what are the new tires, and any change in sizes?
All four new tires are goodyear wrangler all-terrain adventure with kevlar, the same that were on it when i got it new. All of the sizes/specs are identical, i have never variated from this in the 55k driven and also never had issues.

I shouldnt have done 2 at a time, lesson learned, but $500 is $500 and i have already invested 1k in tires in the past few months already so now have 4 practically new tires on my car (visually all four look identically new). Tough to replace practically new tires..

I had no issues when i put only two new ones on (in the back) a few months ago - so hoped there was something else to this, or that I can just put my newest tires in the back now..worth a shot imo.

If minimal tire wear on 2 tires can do this, then i would now need 4 new ones lol, or how can i just wear down two to even it haha.. math book example :) Thanks everyone
 

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All four new tires are goodyear wrangler all-terrain adventure with kevlar, the same that were on it when i got it new. All of the sizes/specs are identical, i have never variated from this in the 55k driven and also never had issues.

I shouldnt have done 2 at a time, lesson learned, but $500 is $500 and i have already invested 1k in tires in the past few months already so now have 4 practically new tires on my car (visually all four look identically new). Tough to replace practically new tires..

I had no issues when i put only two new ones on (in the back) a few months ago - so hoped there was something else to this, or that I can just put my newest tires in the back now..worth a shot imo.

If minimal tire wear on 2 tires can do this, then i would now need 4 new ones lol, or how can i just wear down two to even it haha.. math book example :) Thanks everyone
I'm having a very hard time with the idea that there was enough wear to create this problem in the few months you drove it with just the two new tires on it. How many miles would you estimate you put on those first two new tires before you got the second pair of new ones? IAC you can measure the tread depth with a quality tread depth gauge on the "old" and the new tires and see what the difference is. My guess is there won't even be a 1/32" difference. From what I read here (https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=18) that would not be enough to cause a problem.

I'm wondering if you actually wound up with two different "models" of the same tire, both the same nominal size but one of them with 10/32" tread and the other with 12/32" tread some similar mismatch. I know there are several Michelin tires that look pretty much identical with similar names but their tread depths when new vary several 32nds.

I would pin down the tread depths and assuming it's pretty much the same on all tires I would swap them front to back and see if that fixes the problem. If the problem goes away, drive them like that for 5K and then rotate them again and see if the problem returns.

One other possibility I can imagine happening is that the brand new tires tread just needs a few hundred miles of wear to develop their full grip so if all this has been in just the first few hundred miles perhaps just drive it (non-aggressively) several hundred more and see if the problem goes away.
 

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Do a search online. I think you will find that the tires with the most tread are always placed in the rear. No matter FWD, AWD, RWD and 4WD. The problem arises at highway speeds where the rear tires begin to lose traction and cause skidding and spinouts.

Believe me I was shocked when I read it, especially for front wheel drive vehicles. But it also made a lot of sense to me.

It sounds like all four of your tires are very close, you just need to put the new ones in the rear.
 

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Your original post seemed as if you had two brand new tires and two fairly worn or used tires on your vehicle or I just read it incorrectly, lol. If the two tires you already had on your vehicle are also fairly new as in only a few months old then it's not as bad. If the tread depth is still within a close margin then just stick the new ones in the rear and drive. Rotate them after 5k. You should be fine. You could leave then in the rear a little longer to even them out, lol.
 

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If your vehicle is over-steering, then the ESP/ESC would engage one of the brakes in the rear with the ABS to stop the over-steer.... ....does this happen?

If it doesn't, then you're not over-steering.... ...perhaps you are mistaking something else as over-steer....

You could always buy 2 tires, leave them in your garage, then buy the 2 other tires the next time you can afford them.... ...Then mount them when you have 4 new tires... ...do it through tirerack or another online seller and have them delivered to your door and save even more money.... ....this requires a tiny bit of planning ahead.... ...just like rotating your tires to prevent uneven tire wear....

Driving on different diameter tires with 4X4 can cause wear/damage to the differentials and Transfer Case....
...and yes, just a difference between brand new and down to the tread bar tires front rear can cause wear/damage to the transfer case....
...But unless the transfer case was damaged, I can't see how that causes you to over-steer.... ....and if the transfer case was damaged, you'd have other symptoms than over-steer....

So you either have over-steer and it was likely caused by something other than the stress you put on the drivetrain with a mix of new/old tires.... ....start looking at suspension and shocks, etc...

Or your mistaking some reaction from the vehicle as being over-steer, that you can't figure out... ...read what I said above, unless your ESP/ESC is broken and you have warning lights about it, then you can't truly over-steer without the ESP/ESC engaging and you would notice that.....

Have you checked that all 4 tires are the same air pressure, and the recommended pressure on the door jamb, as well, I typically run the rears 2 PSI less to help guard against over-steer.... ...rear tires being at a higher pressure than the front will make over-steer more likely...

And finally, if you do have problems that you suspect might be tire related, one troubleshooting step is to rotate the tires and see how the vehicle reacts afterwards.... ....remember to adjust tire pressures, unless you run all 4 at the same pressure, and then you should check and service that tire pressure when you rotate....
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Perhaps I am not using the right terms, but essentially when I have my steering wheel cut into a turn (60+ mph) the wheel actually pulls in tighter than intended cutting the turn more than needed, so I have to correct this. In some cases it feels like I could take my hand off the wheel and it would hold this position however what I do is cut the wheel the opposite way to correct this. Obviously this screws up the flow of driving and enjoyment that I usually have with this thing - I have been to hell and back without any major issues otherwise. Someone let me know if this this issue is not 'over steering'- a couple quick google searches had me thinking this is what it was called but forgive any confusion if I misspoke. There are no dash indicators and nothing engages when this occurs, so that is good.

I did make sure that the tires were all the same make/model/specs 166/65/60R 110T but if the tread depth is a spec beyond this I might have overlooked that, so I guess could be a cause. Are there various tread depths for the otherwise same tires?

For now my car is now at the shop where they are putting the newest tires in the back. Once I get it back I am going to make sure the PSI is where I want it to be (sounds like door jamb recc's, maybe -2 in the rear) and will see how she feels! I will add an update once I have had a chance to make any determinations. Again thanks for the feedback everyone!
 

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That's NOT over-steer.....

And your description is hard to follow, if I didn't know better, I would think you have a knife your using on your wheels....

So you turn the steering wheel to enter a turn at 60mph+ and the steering wheel actually tries to pull itself to turn the wheel more to make an even tighter turn? And instead of easing off pressure on the steering wheel to have it naturally come back toward center, instead you have to pull the steering wheel and force it the opposite direction to bring the steering wheel and front wheels back to straight again?

i.e. you turn your steering wheel, the steering wheel does not pull back toward neutral, instead it pulls toward the side you're turning?
This sounds like bad alignment, particularly Caster, but Toe and/or Caster could cause it.

So who did this alignment?
A hack would just adjust camber and toe and not bother with caster.... ....the WK2 is not easy to align in the front, there are no cam bolts, and caster and camber are adjusted by positioned the front and rear bolts of the lower control arm, move them together to adjust camber, move them in opposite directions to adjust camber... ...the FSM says to adjust the rear bolt to change camber, then check the caster which leads me to believe its a recommendation to prevent from screwing up the caster... ....so say someone just adjust camber and called it a day, without checking caster, they could have thrown caster way off...

If you had no alignment problems before you had an alignment, then have alignment problems after the alignment, you think they may have screwed up the alignment?

The right amount of caster pulls the front wheels back to the straight position while your turning....
Not enough caster, the wheels won't pull back toward straight....
Positive caster are almost neutral caster, the wheels could pull toward the side they are turned...

Over-Steer is the tendency for the rear wheels to slide out and make you spin out in turns.... ...its a handling characteristic, NOT a steering wheel characteristic...
Under-Steer is the tendency for the front wheels to plow forward out of the turn....
Neutral is neither tendency, the vehicle holds the curve.... ...but its impossible for any vehicle to be Neutral in every single situation....
The manufacturer's and even the Regulators want the vehicle to under-steer in every situation, so most vehicles are designed to under-steer more than a racer would want.... .....and even with lots of under-steer, you still get the rear to over-steer in slipper conditions, especially when applying power...

Your problem doesn't sound like the tires, it sounds like the alignment you had done.... I suppose its possible you might have a bad tie-rod or some sort of damage or something worn out in the suspension, but barring that, a steering wheel pulling the vehicle more into the turn

You want all your tires to be "AT LEAST" the recommended pressure on the decal on the drivers side door jamb. If you want a bias of more pressure in the front tires to combat over-steer (which you don't have) then up the pressure higher in the front tires, don't run the rear's at lower than recommended pressure.

I'm puzzled why so many people are so afraid of running higher pressure in their tires on this forum, of course you can have to much pressure in your tires, if you see the effects of that, let out a little pressure in your tires, yet so many people act like they are going to slide off the road or their tires will blowout with 2 PSI over the minimum recommended pressure, this laughable. I've had my tires at 44PSI :eek: guess what, nothing happened;).......
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Well that settles the over steer confusion...my bad there. This is not oversteer
So you turn the steering wheel to enter a turn at 60mph+ and the steering wheel actually tries to pull itself to turn the wheel more to make an even tighter turn?
Exactly, if I were steering to stay in the middle of the lane, it would pull in slightly tighter so I would be riding the inside line

And instead of easing off pressure on the steering wheel to have it naturally come back toward center, instead you have to pull the steering wheel and force it the opposite direction to bring the steering wheel and front wheels back to straight again?
in between, it kind if stuck in the tighter turn. Easing off pressure did not correct it much, so i would have to force the wheel opposite of turn and against instinct.

So who did this alignment?
Local gas station, now will reconsider bringing my car there in the future

I am not sure what they did with the alignment initially, but I just got my car back with newest tires in the back now and the problem seems to be gone. I pushed it a bit to make sure... For now I am happy and will check this as resolved :) A few lessons learned primarily from you guys (y)
 

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Is that the same place that installed only 2 new tires on a 4WD vehicle in the first place?

I agree with Mongo, that it definitely sounds like a caster problem from the alignment. Also, not to be an ass, but how did you go over 50k miles without ever rotating the tires? Hell, Jeep gives you 4 free oil change/tire rotations when you buy certain new GCs (the Jeep Wave program).
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Yes it was the same one, but as i said, lesson learned. I hear you re caster issue, if the problem returns I will be going to a new shop to look into that angle.

I actually had rotated my tires previously just not recent to any of this. The jeep wave program sounds amazing however to my knowledge I am not a part of that.
 

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Actually the WK2, while not 50/50 weight distribution like the previous generation XK, is much closer to 50/50 than most vehicles....

Just keep in mind, air pressure changes the tires rotating radius, less air pressure the tire sidewall bulges out and the tire lowers, it will turn at a higher rpm....

If were talking a difference of 1 or 2 PSI, its not going to make a difference, especially considering, like MattAlaska said, the rear is lighter than the front....

And it is too low of tire pressure that is dangerous, much more than too high of a pressure.....
The blowout tests for the tires, they hit 200-300 PSI or more before the tire actually bursts.....
The Max Tire Pressure molded on the sidewall I suspect is for safety in regards to handling, you inflate the tire more than that max pressure, the tread doesn't contact the ground as much and handling characteristics are reduced, etc, etc....
When tire pressure it too low, where you TPMS goes off and warns you or less, there is too much of a bulge in the tire, as the tire turns, that bulge create a lot of bending and flexing in the tire. What happens when you bend a wire coat hanger back and forth? It gets hot, brittle and brakes... ...the tire is getting very hot if you drive at high speeds with low tire pressure...

That was the Firestone Fiasco, and it was as much Ford and the Owner's of the Explorer's fault as it was Firestone...
The end result was, many, many vehicles were driving around on too low of an air pressure on their tires... ....and none of the tires actually blew out, they simple got so hot, the tread separated and came off the tire carcass....
 
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