No tow hooks? Front Recovery Solution help

243080 Views 1225 Replies 134 Participants Last post by GMWK2, May 21, 2019

Mendo

Discussion Starter · Dec 5, 2011

No tow hooks? Front Recovery Soluition help

I went to the dealer today to check the timing of my delivery and we hit a major stumbling block. The ECB bullbar does not fit the 2012 JGC. I spoke to the guy at ECB and he said the chassis rail has been shortened by a couple of inches. (they are working on re-engineering mounts but will take time)

It appears that to protect the pedestrian and satisfy NCAP (and ANCAP), not only are the hooks removed, but they have shortened the protrusion of the chassis rail.

I would appreciate someone in the know to let us know for sure but I'm guessing all AUS ORAII packs will come minus the tow hooks, and without any serious front end recovery solution at all.

Any suggestions for an alternative?

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BobT

· #1,201 · Sep 8, 2016

Re: No tow hooks? Front Recovery Soluition help

Lewy2001 said:
The Uneek hooks are rated to 3000Kg individually so using both with equaliser strap should be adequate for recovery. Watched a video recently of a Ford Ranger with offroad trailer attached where they measured the load of the recovery with snatch strap. They had the Ranger deep in a bog with trailer and the load was 3160kgs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6ib-tY-f8U&feature=youtu.be

It's an impressive video. I'm an Engineer and judging by the presenter's language, I'd guess the script writer, is an Engineer also. He makes an interesting point that their tests show that the dynamic load required to snatch a vehicle out of a bog is not much different to the mass of the vehicle. Off the top of my head, I would have thought it would be much higher. Chief Products decided to go with a working load limit of 4,500kg for their recovery hooks. These are Engineer certified. Not sure if Uneek's hooks are engineered. They may be. Where they say their hooks are "rated" at 3,000kg they probably mean working load limit but it's not clear.

SnakeDoctor

· #1,202 · Sep 18, 2016

Re: No tow hooks? Front Recovery Soluition help

The uneek points are much stronger than what Toyota drivers have been using for 15 years to snatch out.

bmackin

· #1,203 · Sep 21, 2016

Re: No tow hooks? Front Recovery Soluition help

BobT said:
It's an impressive video. I'm an Engineer and judging by the presenter's language, I'd guess the script writer, is an Engineer also. He makes an interesting point that their tests show that the dynamic load required to snatch a vehicle out of a bog is not much different to the mass of the vehicle. Off the top of my head, I would have thought it would be much higher. Chief Products decided to go with a working load limit of 4,500kg for their recovery hooks. These are Engineer certified. Not sure if Uneek's hooks are engineered. They may be. Where they say their hooks are "rated" at 3,000kg they probably mean working load limit but it's not clear.

I saw this and thought I'd post a quick reply.

Based on our research, 1.5 times GVM is considered the engineering standard for recovery points. This is probably why Jeep engineered the front mounting points to 4,500kg and the Jeep Australia Hook is rated to 4,500kg WLL.

The presenter in the TJM video mentions that the forces in a typical snatch recovery are about the same as GVM, which is correct, but a good recovery point should also be able to withstand the forces of a more seriously bogged (non-standard) recovery. Bury that same Ford Ranger in mud 6 inches deeper and those recovery forces will go up significantly. It should also be noted that the curb weight of a dual cab Ford Ranger is about 300-500kg less than a GC, although the trailer in the video probably makes up for that.

Using a bridle strap to distribute recovery forces over both recovery points can be extremely helpful, (and recommended) but there are a few things to remember. First, the WLL when using a bridle strap with (2) ecovery points is only 80% of the combined ratings, 3000kg * 2 * 0.80 = 4800kg (not 6000kg). Second, this rating drops quickly if the pull is not directly in front of the vehicle, because the loads are unequally distributed to the recovery points.

Finally, keep in mind that many will also want recovery points that can be used with a winch. For a 10,000lb winch that would be about 4500kg.

I hope that helps!

Cheers,
Bill

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Reactions: 5

BobT

· #1,204 · Mar 15, 2017

You might be interested to note that the Chief recovery points now have aluminium spacer plates instead of steel. It saves 4kg a pair with no loss of strength. I might not sound like much buy that's 4kg less right up front pounding the front suspension all day on the Gibb River Road.

Reactions: 2

imaz

· #1,205 · Mar 15, 2017 (Edited)

BobT said:
You might be interested to note that the Chief recovery points now have aluminium spacer plates instead of steel. It saves 4kg a pair with no loss of strength. I might not sound like much buy that's 4kg less right up front pounding the front suspension all day on the Gibb River Road.

The pair i got from Ohio deisel parts came with alluminium spacers and look identical to chiefs. Could i have bought directly from chiefs supplier??

They were half the price around US$250 for the pair.
https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/58c8b4a65c923/IMG_9414.JPG

https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/58c8b46be89d6/IMG_9378.JPG

Reactions: 1

imaz

· #1,206 · Mar 15, 2017

Re: No tow hooks? Front Recovery Soluition help

Btw, these a damn heavy, solid and thick. Comes with the correct bolts and instructions. Torque specs etc. these are nothing like the uneek recover points.

SnakeDoctor

· #1,207 · Mar 15, 2017

BobT said:
You might be interested to note that the Chief recovery points now have aluminium spacer plates instead of steel. It saves 4kg a pair with no loss of strength. I might not sound like much buy that's 4kg less right up front pounding the front suspension all day on the Gibb River Road.

I'd be up for just the alloy spacers - hadn't heard this before - Chief?

bmackin

· #1,208 · Mar 17, 2017

imaz said:
The pair i got from Ohio deisel parts came with alluminium spacers and look identical to chiefs. Could i have bought directly from chiefs supplier??

They were half the price around US$250 for the pair.
https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/58c8b4a65c923/IMG_9414.JPG

https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/58c8b46be89d6/IMG_9378.JPG

Hi Imaz,

The parts you mention are a copy of the Chief Products WK2 Recovery Point, (https://usa.chiefproducts.com.au/pro...ry-point-front).

I'm the owner of Chief Products, so I figured I'd make 2 quick points.

First, it really sucks to do all of the product design, development, engineering, FEA computer modelling and real world testing to create a great product for the WK2 community, just to have someone copy your hard work. The design of these may seem simple, but it took 8 months and 8 design iterations just to achieve the first version we released. Since then, we've continued improving the product, (WK2 RECOVERY POINT - REVISION HISTORY). If you're willing to support the companies that are investing their engineering, time and development resources into creating products for the WK2, it helps everyone in the WK2 community.

Second, be careful using the copy version for non-straight line recoveries. In our testing, the middle mounting plate with strengthening bolt that we include is key to safety.

Cheers,
Bill Mackin

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Reactions: 4

bmackin

· #1,209 · Mar 17, 2017

SnakeDoctor said:
I'd be up for just the alloy spacers - hadn't heard this before - Chief?

Hi SnakeDoctor,

We haven't released them as an official part for sale, but I could organise a Custom Order for you if you're interested in a pair. Shoot me an email and I'll get it organised for you.

We don't carry stock of them on their own, so I'll need to wait until our local retailer has an extra set left over from an install, (when you install the WK2 Nudge Bar and WK2 Recovery Points together, there is an extra set of mounting plates left over).

I hope that helps!

Cheers,
Bill

grimlock

· #1,210 · Mar 17, 2017

Bill , can i ask as the owner of chief products . why is it the chief recovery points are not compatible with arb bars. I would like to cut a small section out on the passenger side and install a second recovery point and replace the existing arb recovery point .

BobT

· #1,211 · Mar 18, 2017 (Edited)

bmackin said:
Hi Imaz,

The parts you mention are a copy of the Chief Products WK2 Recovery Point, (https://usa.chiefproducts.com.au/pro...ry-point-front).

I'm the owner of Chief Products, so I figured I'd make 2 quick points.

First, it really sucks to do all of the product design, development, engineering, FEA computer modelling and real world testing to create a great product for the WK2 community, just to have someone copy your hard work. The design of these may seem simple, but it took 8 months and 8 design iterations just to achieve the first version we released. Since then, we've continued improving the product, (WK2 RECOVERY POINT - REVISION HISTORY). If you're willing to support the companies that are investing their engineering, time and development resources into creating products for the WK2, it helps everyone in the WK2 community.

Second, be careful using the copy version for non-straight line recoveries. In our testing, the middle mounting plate with strengthening bolt that we include is key to safety.

Cheers,
Bill Mackin

Bill,
Can you sue them? They sure as hell would sue you if the shoe was on the other foot. How about getting the site owner to ban the other bloke?

Reactions: 1

bmackin

· #1,212 · Mar 19, 2017 (Edited)

grimlock said:
Bill , can i ask as the owner of chief products . why is it the chief recovery points are not compatible with arb bars. I would like to cut a small section out on the passenger side and install a second recovery point and replace the existing arb recovery point .

Hi grimlock,

We've actually had a few requests for compatibility with the ARB Bull Bar. Our WK2 Sump Protection Plate is compatible, but when we took a look at compatibility for our WK2 Recovery Hook and WK2 Recovery Point we found several issues that seemed rather difficult to overcome.

First, creating access to the recovery point. Our WK2 Recovery Point and WK2 Recovery Hook mount to the frame in the same spot as the ARB Bull Bar. Even if we could create a mounting system to make the 2 compatible, the ARB Bull Bar sits much further forward than the OEM bumper. Access to our recovery point would be difficult, since our recovery point would sit behind the bar.

Second, any cutting or alteration to the ARB Bull Bar will void the warranty on that product so we believe many ARB Bull Bar owners would be reluctant to make alterations.

Not that it helps ARB Bull Bar owners, but we did have some success altering our WK2 Recovery Points to be compatible with the Ironman Bull Bar, (see photo). Their bar sits a bit higher and mounts differently, so we were able to make things work fairly easily.

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Reactions: 2

bmackin

· #1,213 · Mar 20, 2017

BobT said:
Bill,
Can you sue them? They sure as hell would sue you if the shoe was on the other foot. How about getting the site owner to ban the other bloke?

Hi Bob,

My law firm is taking a look at it now. They seem encouraged and plan to make contact shortly.

I've had good success having threads removed from Facebook groups, but I haven't reached out to any forum admins yet. I figured I'd wait for their response to my lawyers, before moving forward.

Hopefully it is quickly resolved and we can get back to making cool stuff for all the WK2 owners out there!

Cheers,
Bill

Reactions: 1

imaz

· #1,214 · Mar 20, 2017

bmackin said:
Hi Bob,

My law firm is taking a look at it now. They seem encouraged and plan to make contact shortly.

I've had good success having threads removed from Facebook groups, but I haven't reached out to any forum admins yet. I figured I'd wait for their response to my lawyers, before moving forward.

Hopefully it is quickly resolved and we can get back to making cool stuff for all the WK2 owners out there!

Cheers,
Bill

Is this the first time you have came across a replica of your design? Are you based in US?

BobT

· #1,215 · Mar 20, 2017 (Edited)

imaz said:
Is this the first time you have came across a replica of your design? Are you based in US?

This is not a Chinese knock off of a US product. It's a US knock off of an Australian product :slapfight:

Reactions: 1

GMWK2

· #1,216 · Mar 20, 2017

Re: No tow hooks? Front Recovery Soluition help

PROUDLY Australian I'd say!

I blame the North Koreans. And phone bugging.

Sent from my iPhone using JeepGarage

adriwood

· #1,217 · Mar 20, 2017

Re: No tow hooks? Front Recovery Soluition help

GMWK2 said:
PROUDLY Australian I'd say!

I blame the North Koreans. And phone bugging.

Sent from my iPhone using JeepGarage

Nah!!.

It was Obama. Trump said so.

grimlock

· #1,218 · Mar 20, 2017

bmackin said:
Hi grimlock,

We've actually had a few requests for compatibility with the ARB Bull Bar. Our WK2 Sump Protection Plate is compatible, but when we took a look at compatibility for our WK2 Recovery Hook and WK2 Recovery Point we found several issues that seemed rather difficult to overcome.

First, creating access to the recovery point. Our WK2 Recovery Point and WK2 Recovery Hook mount to the frame in the same spot as the ARB Bull Bar. Even if we could create a mounting system to make the 2 compatible, the ARB Bull Bar sits much further forward than the OEM bumper. Access to our recovery point would be difficult, since our recovery point would sit behind the bar.

Second, any cutting or alteration to the ARB Bull Bar will void the warranty on that product so we believe many ARB Bull Bar owners would be reluctant to make alterations.

Not that it helps ARB Bull Bar owners, but we did have some success altering our WK2 Recovery Points to be compatible with the Ironman Bull Bar, (see photo). Their bar sits a bit higher and mounts differently, so we were able to make things work fairly easily.

thanks for the reply bill . i would have thought cutting the metal plates underneath the bullbar wouldn't be a big issue . i do have the one recovery point but i would feel better with two although with mainly beach/sand work that i do if i can't get out with maxxtrax then a quick pull will be sufficient from the one point . it is frustrating though and would happily void my warranty seeing as the car is second hand anyway

Reactions: 1

bmackin

· #1,219 · Mar 20, 2017

grimlock said:
thanks for the reply bill . i would have thought cutting the metal plates underneath the bullbar wouldn't be a big issue . i do have the one recovery point but i would feel better with two although with mainly beach/sand work that i do if i can't get out with maxxtrax then a quick pull will be sufficient from the one point . it is frustrating though and would happily void my warranty seeing as the car is second hand anyway

Hi grimlock,

It's been awhile since I've had a close look behind the ARB Bull Bar, but from memory the mounting system made it a bit more difficult than it was with the Ironman Bull Bar. The next time I get my hands on a WK2 with an ARB Bull Bar I'll have another look.

Cheers,
Bill

grimlock

· #1,220 · Mar 21, 2017

bmackin said:
Hi grimlock,

It's been awhile since I've had a close look behind the ARB Bull Bar, but from memory the mounting system made it a bit more difficult than it was with the Ironman Bull Bar. The next time I get my hands on a WK2 with an ARB Bull Bar I'll have another look.

Cheers,
Bill

if you're ever in perth let me know , qld is a bit far for me to pop over for you to have a squiz at my wk2

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