[Barboots]

I've been making up a list of some of the "harder" 18" tyres for off road use. I realised it might be of use to others and started to add in a few of the tyres which probably were not my bag, but went some way towards making it a "complete" list. I started to lose interest and appreciate it isn't complete, however as far as the tougher / more agressive tyres are concerned it's bloody close

Note the percentage change figures are circumfrential, not radius (height increase) or diameter. I might add this in tomorrow with some other stuff I've missed / skipped... or not!

265/60R18 Factory 18"s = Baseline
Pirelli Scorpion ATR - Construction Not Specified
BBridgestone D697 - LT Construction

265/65R18 = 3.42% Increase
BF Goodrich AT - LT Construction

285/60R18 = 3.39%
General Grabber AT2 - LT Construction
Bridgestone D697 - LT Construction
Cooper Zeon LTZ

275/65R18 = 5.39% Increase
Falken Wildpeak A/T - LT Construction
General Grabber AT2 - LT Construction
Cooper AT/3 - LT Construction
Cooper ST
Cooper STT - True 3 Ply Construction
Maxxis MT764 Big Horn
Federal Couragia (not on website, found on eBay!)

285/65R18 = 6.77% Increase
Falken Wildpeak A/T - LT Construction

275/70R18 = 8.95% Increase
Mickey Thompson ATZ
Mickey Thompson MTZ
Cooper ST
Cooper STT
Cooper ST Max

Some of the bigger stuff is going to be a problem in the spare wheel well, and may even require wheels with less offset in order to push the tyre away from the upper control arm joint, which seems pretty close on my inspection. Anyway, this is a work on progress... I just thought putting it here might spark things up a bit.

Steve

 

[lt4vette]

I've been making up a list of some of the "harder" 18" tyres for off road use. I realised it might be of use to others and started to add in a few of the tyres which probably were not my bag, but went some way towards making it a "complete" list. I started to lose interest and appreciate it isn't complete, however as far as the tougher / more agressive tyres are concerned it's bloody close

Note the percentage change figures are circumfrential, not radius (height increase) or diameter. I might add this in tomorrow with some other stuff I've missed / skipped... or not!

265/60R18 Factory 18"s = Baseline
Pirelli Scorpion ATR - Construction Not Specified

265/65R18 = 3.42% Increase
BF Goodrich AT - LT Construction

285/60R18 = 3.39%
General Grabber AT2 - LT Construction
Bridgestone D697 - LT Construction
Cooper Zeon LTZ

275/65R18 = 5.39% Increase
Falken Wildpeak A/T - LT Construction
General Grabber AT2 - LT Construction
Cooper AT/3 - LT Construction
Cooper ST
Cooper STT - True 3 Ply Construction
Maxxis MT764 Big Horn
Federal Couragia (not on website, found on eBay!)

285/65R18 = 6.77% Increase
Falken Wildpeak A/T - LT Construction

275/70R18 = 8.95% Increase
Mickey Thompson ATZ
Mickey Thompson MTZ
Cooper ST
Cooper STT
Cooper ST Max

Some of the bigger stuff is going to be a problem in the spare wheel well, and may even require wheels with less offset in order to push the tyre away from the upper control arm joint, which seems pretty close on my inspection. Anyway, this is a work on progress... I just thought putting it here might spark things up a bit.

Steve

Thanks Steve - great info. I would add the Bridgestone D697 LT in the Baseline size of 265/60/18. It seems to be that these are the only LT construction in the OEM size, and a couple of the others on JG are using them.
Russell

 

[noons]

Nice work Steve!

 

[Barboots]

Thanks Steve - great info. I would add the Bridgestone D697 LT in the Baseline size of 265/60/18. It seems to be that these are the only LT construction in the OEM size, and a couple of the others on JG are using them.
Russell

Thanks for picking up my oversight on that one Russell

Amended to reflect the Bridgies.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[BobT]

Good research Barboots! Regarding a wider tyre option, there is no doubt they look cool. However, from what I have read, they may actually be disadvantageous in sand. This is opposite to what one would expect. The wider tyre has to push a wider bow wave of sand. Old Land Rovers with their skinny tyres had little difficulty in sand. OK, we aren't talking about much but my point is that it is a mistake to opt for a wider tyre thinking they will perform better in sand. Opt for wider tyres for bling only.

BTW, I went for D697's for the very reason that It4vette states. They are the only LT tyre available in the OEM size.

 

[Barboots]

That certainly is the old story Bob, but the equipment has changed and we need to consider whether a "rule" or approach still applies.

The wider "wave" taxed the old asthmatic diesels terribly, but if you have the power to push it then it's less of a factor... eespecially if you can get more on top of it. Bear in mind it's mostly an issue as far as getting moving, as testified by all those smoking clutches! Also consider that the reduced gain in footprint from lower profile tyres could be offset by going that little bit wider.

The sand to the North of Perth is incredibly hungry, and I might have spent a thousand hours operating and directly observing almost every 4WD sold in Australia negotiating it. I agree... skinny high profile tyres with plenty of air out of them are best for for the old nags... but we've got ponies mate.

Anecdotally, I only noticed improvement when I ran 275's on my old Prado which came with 265's. That was going to a slightly harder carcass as well, which shouldn't help. It was a V6 petrol auto, so had reserve to push them.

I have no concerns about fitting wider than 265's in the context of sand driving. Clearance on the upper control arm ball joint is another matter, and may require an offset change. I'd rather not go that far again, though it's always tempting.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[lt4vette]

Does changing the offset to accommodate wider tyres (or for any other reason I guess), increase the load on the hubs or bearings enough to be a problem? Would it have warranty implications?
Thanks,
Russell

 

[Barboots]

Does changing the offset to accommodate wider tyres (or for any other reason I guess), increase the load on the hubs or bearings enough to be a problem? Would it have warranty implications?
Thanks,
Russell

Yes Russell, the additional leverage can add to the load on the bearings. Whether this is significant given the huge inset of the standard wheels would be debatable. Currently they receive a massive leverage effect from the inside edge of the wheel, say if stepped up on a rock. Well that's my assessment of the situation anyway.

Anything seems to have warranty implications, however there needs to be a close association with the modification and any fault to have validity. If it was a bearing issue you'd probably be paying for it given Jeep's friendly nature.

I went from a -17 to a zero offset on my Prado. It has expensive "sealed for life" bearings and I had a slight concern that given the almost daily off-road use there would be a cost down the line. I've only done 70kkms since, but there's no hint of an issue.

I guess my last comment is that this time around these will be a second set of wheels for me, so the dealer will never see them :thumbsup:

Cheers,
Steve

 

[lt4vette]

Yes Russell, the additional leverage can add to the load on the bearings. Whether this is significant given the huge inset of the standard wheels would be debatable. Currently they receive a massive leverage effect from the inside edge of the wheel, say if stepped up on a rock. Well that's my assessment of the situation anyway.

Anything seems to have warranty implications, however there needs to be a close association with the modification and any fault to have validity. If it was a bearing issue you'd probably be paying for it given Jeep's friendly nature.

I went from a -17 to a zero offset on my Prado. It has expensive "sealed for life" bearings and I had a slight concern that given the almost daily off-road use there would be a cost down the line. I've only done 70kkms since, but there's no hint of an issue.

I guess my last comment is that this time around these will be a second set of wheels for me, so the dealer will never see them :thumbsup:

Cheers,
Steve

Thanks Steve,
Good points. If as you say most of the leverage is currently on the inside of the wheel, then for a small move in the offset to cause a problem, you'd have to assume that the bearings were quite asymmetrical in some way, which seems unlikely.
I get my Overland (ORAII) sometime in the next few days, and I have been trying to decide whether to try to trade the Khumo's immediately, run them bald then upgrade to an LT, or a second set of wheels and tyres for the rough trips. Like you, I have come down on the side of the second set of wheels. So I'll be looking for 18" wheels - which Jeep says should be OEM or else they may not be compatible with the TPMS! Know anything about that? Maybe the rim shape or something.
Thanks,
Russell

EDIT: I guess what I said about asymmetry is not really the case - they are obviously designed for load under cornering.

 

[Barboots]

Russell a key reason for the massive negative offset used today is to assist suspension design... I understand it is advantageous to have a longer pivot with independent systems, primarily with regard to scrubbing. I also believe it is beneficial for the design of the actual suspension dynamics.

Your edit is correct though... shifting the offset outwards does increase load during cornering. No argument there!

I'm struggling with the same concerns as you. No one seems to know whether the TPMS sensors will fit their Jeep specific aftermarket wheels! The market seems a void of intelligence, or give a sh!t factor at the least. Despite my wants, I'll probably go with an OEM Jeep wheel. That said I've got some -45 offset wheels on order "for a look"... the supplier is apparently OK to take them back. Do I buy 4x TPMS sensors online in anticipation of them working??? Probably, as any genuine 18"s I find without tyres will probably have had them stripped. That's my position... as of today :lol:

Why not buy 20"s for around town? There's a few about at the right price. If I were you, I'd sell the 18" tyres immediately... but everyone has a different angle to that!

Cheers,
Steve

 

[lt4vette]

Russell a key reason for the massive negative offset used today is to assist suspension design... I understand it is advantageous to have a longer pivot with independent systems, primarily with regard to scrubbing. I also believe it is beneficial for the design of the actual suspension dynamics.

Your edit is correct though... shifting the offset outwards does increase load during cornering. No argument there!

I'm struggling with the same concerns as you. No one seems to know whether the TPMS sensors will fit their Jeep specific aftermarket wheels! The market seems a void of intelligence, or give a sh!t factor at the least. Despite my wants, I'll probably go with an OEM Jeep wheel. That said I've got some -45 offset wheels on order "for a look"... the supplier is apparently OK to take them back. Do I buy 4x TPMS sensors online in anticipation of them working??? Probably, as any genuine 18"s I find without tyres will probably have had them stripped. That's my position... as of today :lol:

Why not buy 20"s for around town? There's a few about at the right price. If I were you, I'd sell the 18" tyres immediately... but everyone has a different angle to that!

Cheers,
Steve

Hi Steve,
Where I live, I just about need the height of the 18's just to drive on the rotten pot-holed roads. I have a Merc with 45 and 35 profile tyres, and have wrecked 3 rims (and $450 tyres!) in two years. So, even if I wasn't offroading, I would have gone for the 18's on the Jeep.
With the TPMS, probably the only way is to look at an OEM wheel with the tyre off, and the potential aftermarket, and try to compare them. The only thing I can think of is the width of the "ledge" the valve stem goes through, or the angle of it so the sensor doesn't get in the way during tyre removal. Jeep are VERY specific about how to remove and replace a tyre - so much so I'd be amazed if Bob Janes' followed the procedure.
Thanks, Russell

 

[duggy2145]

Just to add to the list,Cooper AT/3's are available in 265/65 18 which I am running on my WG.
Cheers Doug

 

[Barboots]

Thanks Doug. I went through the Cooper range early on when I was just looking for myself, skipping the AT3's in favour of their more agressive options. I must have missed the AT3 when I came back to "complete" the list.

They are certainly worthy of inclusion, especially given their close to OEM size. I can't edit my first post again, so once all my oversights are pointed out I'll re-post fully amended.

Thanks again,
Steve

 

[BobT]

With the TPMS, probably the only way is to look at an OEM wheel with the tyre off, and the potential aftermarket, and try to compare them. The only thing I can think of is the width of the "ledge" the valve stem goes through, or the angle of it so the sensor doesn't get in the way during tyre removal. Jeep are VERY specific about how to remove and replace a tyre - so much so I'd be amazed if Bob Janes' followed the procedure.
Thanks, Russell

The Tyre and Rim Association of Australia is quite specific on rim and tyre dimensions. However, with regard to TPMS, on page F-3 of their 2014 manual, they state,
"The Tyre and Rim Association has not approved a standard for tyre pressure monitoring sensor device envelope. The device manufacturer and installer must ensure that the device does not interfere with tyre mounting/dismounting or cause tyre damage."
This implies that all Aussie "legal" rims and tyres are made to the same standard and TPMS's are simply made to fit. One must assume that Jeep rims meet that standard but then there are no guarantees where Fiat Chrysler Australia are involved.

 

[Barboots]

The Tyre and Rim Association of Australia is quite specific on rim and tyre dimensions. However, with regard to TPMS, on page F-3 of their 2014 manual, they state,
"The Tyre and Rim Association has not approved a standard for tyre pressure monitoring sensor device envelope. The device manufacturer and installer must ensure that the device does not interfere with tyre mounting/dismounting or cause tyre damage."

This implies that all Aussie "legal" rims and tyres are made to the same standard and TPMS's are simply made to fit.

I don't see that written there Bob. It says there is no standard sensor mounting base shape. It says the sensor must be clear of tyre mounting equipment. That is all.

So whether the Grand Cherokee TPMS sensors fit an untested aftermarket rim is unclear until inspected (measured) or trial fit.

That's my take anyway.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[lt4vette]

I don't see that written there Bob. It says there is no standard sensor mounting base shape. It says the sensor must be clear of tyre mounting equipment. That is all.

So whether the Grand Cherokee TPMS sensors fit an untested aftermarket rim is unclear until inspected (measured) or trial fit.

That's my take anyway.

Cheers,
Steve

Jeep doesn't seem to be confident that the sensor will remain clear of tyre changing equipment (from wk2jeeps):

"4. Mount tire on wheel following tire changer manufacturers instructions, paying special attention to the following to avoid damaging tire pressure sensor:
a. Rotating Wheel Tire Changers - Once the wheel is mounted to the changer, position the sensor valve stem (2) approximately 280° from the head of the changer (located at 1) in a clockwise direction before rotating the wheel (also in a clockwise direction) to mount the tire. Use this procedure on both the outer and inner tire beads.

b. Rotating Tool Tire Changers - Position the wheel on the changer so that the sensor valve stem (1) is located approximately 210° clockwise from the installation end of the mounting/dismounting tool (2) once the tool is mounted for tire installation. Make sure the sensor is clear of the lower bead breaker area (3) to avoid damaging the sensor when the breaker rises. Rotate the tool (2) in a counterclockwise direction to mount the tire. Use this procedure on both the outer and inner tire beads."

nterstingly, the only tyre change I have had on wheels with TPMS they broke one of the two sensors - and that was at the dealer.

 

[Barboots]

I think any TPMS equipped wheel is going to require this kind of attention. Having the pressure point of the mounting equipment not pass the sensor is going to apply across the board.

Part of need for this cautionary note is in response to the care factor of the average fitter... which will be none. The job has to be spelt out precisely.

Steve

 

[lt4vette]

I think any TPMS equipped wheel is going to require this kind of attention. Having the pressure point of the mounting equipment not pass the sensor is going to apply across the board.

Part of need for this cautionary note is in response to the care factor of the average fitter... which will be none. The job has to be spelt out precisely.

Steve

I just noticed this:

The TPM sensors are designed for original style factory wheels. It is not recommended to install a tire pressure sensor in an aftermarket wheel. (This could cause sealing and system performance issues.)

Its not talking about damage as I thought, but is even harder to explain imo.

Russell

 

[BobT]

I don't see that written there Bob. It says there is no standard sensor mounting base shape. It says the sensor must be clear of tyre mounting equipment. That is all.

So whether the Grand Cherokee TPMS sensors fit an untested aftermarket rim is unclear until inspected (measured) or trial fit.

That's my take anyway.

Cheers,
Steve

What I'm saying is that all rims should be standard. It would still be wise to check regardless.

 

[Zillajnr]

Can someone who has the Bridgestone D697 in 265/60/18 measure the actual tread width please.
I have just measured BF Goodrich in 265/70/17 (on a Prado) and the tread width was 220mm, not 265mm, so want to know what the D697 are.

Could someone who has the Yokohama A/T3 (I think Sparky has these) do the same please.

I wonder what the tread width of the Bridgestone D697 in 285/60/18 is?

If there are any others with different brands that could do the same it might help.

Thanks.