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Discussion Starter #1
There really is a cold start difference between the 899 and 339 oil filters.

My hemi had never exhibited loud lifter noise on startup until after the dealer did an oil change back in September, at 29,000 miles Then every morning especially cold mornings the lifters would clack for a good 3-5 seconds before quieting down.

When I looked at my invoice I saw that they had used the 899 filter. Previous oil change invoices had shown the 339 filter used. My build date is 6/15 so clearly it should be the 339 filter. It took a couple weeks to get a new filler neck for my JGC so when it finally came in and I took it back in for the filler neck, they also changed the filter back to the 399. It's been 3 weeks since and not once has there been morning lifter noise! And we've had some temps in the low teens too. Not once!

I don't fault the tech, he gives his parts department the VIN and they're supposed to pull the correct part number. In fact my tech drives a 2016 Ram 1500 hemi and he's always had morning lifter noise. After my experience, he changed his filter from the 899 to the 339 and said he's never had morning lifter noise again.

Now the dealer and I need to figure out if several weeks of lifters not pumping up because of an incorrect oil filter has caused any long term damage to the lifters. Do I let them pull the engine apart and replace all the lifters? They're willing to do that, but I'm always leery of tearing apart a good engine, never know what else may happen like oil leaks etc. My 36/36 warranty doesn't expire until 2/19, and between the 5/100 powertrain and the 7/100 Maxcare warranties, I'm covered for a long time anyway.
 

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Well, I really don't know what to say about the tearing apart the engine just to replace the lifters. Is there any metal shavings in your oil? Is there a loss of power?


Hunter Roberts

EMT-B
 

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Good to see this post...similar to my 2012 JGC with the Hemi. Up to 103k miles, the Jeep dealer has changed the oil on this car every 5k miles..sometimes with the 899 or the 339. The last oil change they done was at 97k and the invoice said it was an 899 filter, when it actually was a 339. At 103k, I changed the oil myself and put on a 899 filter and begin to notice a ticking noise at startup, that went away after about 15 seconds.

After doing some research, I changed oil yesterday to Redline 5w-20 and a Royal Purple oil filter...I will keep checking on the start up tick and see if it goes away.

While also poking around the engine after startup, I could move the exhaust manifield shield some and make the tick disapper, making me wonder if I have the exhaust studs broken off. Either way, I guess I got some good oil and a good filter on!!

With your warranty left, I dont think I would have them tear apart the engine...but just my opinion.
 

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formerly 14summithemi
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thx for posting and yeah, especially with total warranty protection, I would not crack a solid engine open...partly because IMHO there was no real damage done..if anything maybe a day or two of life was taken off the some parts...but mainly because I simply do not trust current FCA dealer techs for anything but required must do work...I think the potential for "why didn't I just leave it alone?" is high....:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
40 years ago, my uncle who collected old vintage Italian exotics said that he never takes a good engine apart. He said "it lets the magic out". I've always lived by that motto. Might they get the heads back on and everything is OK? Sure. But fenders can get scratched, dirt gets in the engine accidentally etc. Whenever I rebuild my Porsche race engine or transmission, that side of the garage is like an engineering clean-room. I've seen too many dealership service bays that look like they haven't been cleaned in years.
 

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Oil Leaks, because of valvetrain noise? No, I don't think so....

Yes, the valvetrain noise does mean stress on the valvetrain, but this has happened on other engines all the time with no damage. A few seconds at startup is not a lot. The previous SAE standard for oil had more zinc additive in it for the metal metal contact, like in the valvetrain, but the latest has removed most if not all zinc additives, because modern valvetrain don't need it. So valvetrain damage might cause more damage today than it did in the past.

The only way tearing down an engine would cause future problems would be because the tech/mechanic doing it, does it wrong or cut corners. Pulling heads will leave gasket material behind, and aluminum heads, because of the soft material must be cleaned very carefully. So yes, you should worry, pulling heads and re-installing them, does carry the risk of tech/mechanics cutting corners and the headgasket springs leaks later on during the life of the vehicle.

An oil analysis, would show metals or chemical byproducts of metal wear, that might be worth looking into.

I'm puzzled how an oil filter causes valvetrain noise?

If the oil pressure fails to build quickly after starting the engine, the lifters could compress and create lash in the valvetrain, this would cause the tapping noise. The filters have anti-drainback valves, that will trap the oil in the engine and prevent it from draining out. A little bit larger filter shouldn't be enough of a difference to create a problem like this. And what did they change on the later Hemi's that require a smaller filter, while the earlier Hemi's could handle a slightly larger filter?

Has anyone else reported this? I'd be more suspicious you got a filter with a bad anti-drainback valve than somehow later Hemi's need a smaller oil filter, otherwise they will fail to build oil pressure fast enough to prevent valvetrain noise after engine start.
 

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formerly 14summithemi
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Not sure how oil "leaks" got into the discussion, sorry if missed it below.... the larger, pre 10/14 899 filter has a bypass pressure diff of 16psi, whereas, the smaller, post 10/14 339 filter is 12psi...they made the change for a reason...the anti drain back is not the end all for top startup oiling needs...it doesn't hold "that" much oil...gotta figure maybe the earlier bypass was aimed at increasing oil volume to top end for startups...I am not thinking there were any 5.7 changes at 10/14 split except maybe some ecm/pcm tweaking...just spitballing here.

Btw, I pm'd Milous inquiring about any more info on the 899/339 10/14 change.
 

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Not sure how oil "leaks" got into the discussion, sorry if missed it below.... the larger, pre 10/14 899 filter has a bypass pressure diff of 16psi, whereas, the smaller, post 10/14 339 filter is 12psi...they made the change for a reason...the anti drain back is not the end all for top startup oiling needs...it doesn't hold "that" much oil...gotta figure maybe the earlier bypass was aimed at increasing oil volume to top end for startups...I am not thinking there were any 5.7 changes at 10/14 split except maybe some ecm/pcm tweaking...just spitballing here.

Btw, I pm'd Milous inquiring about any more info on the 899/339 10/14 change.
The O.P. mentioned it while discussing tearing down the engine. But looking back at it, he meant a drawback of tearing down an engine could be leaks afterward putting it back together, which is possible.

The size of the bypass valve could have an effect also, if its to small it could restrict flow even while bypassing and maybe the later filter has a larger opening.

What confuses me, I have a 2011 5.7L, and have used the larger 899 filters in both quality aftermarket and Mopar, and never experienced valvetrain noise after starting. And if they didn't change anything in the engine after 10/14, then why would the 899 filter make valvetrain noise in a '15 Engine, but not an earlier engine?

I'm in the mid 80k miles, the P.O. didn't take care of the vehicle.

It's all anecdotal, perhaps there are plenty of Hemi owners that get valvetrain noise before and after 10/14 and those that switch to the 339 filter solve it?

And who's using higher than recommended viscosity and who's been using Synthetic Oil or Conventional Oil. Synthetic is much better at keeping lifters from gumming/varnishing up.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
By leaks I was indeed referring to having someone tear apart a perfectly good engine, and hope they get it back together without leaks. That's always a risk if a dealer puts someone inexperienced or careless on the job.
 

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My faith in anti drain back valves has diminished significantly coming from a Wrangler with the 3.8. Side mounted oil filter. Oil lamp would flicker on the dash after a startup after oil changes. Long story short it was determined to be the oil filter draining. I tried every brand of oil filter and they would eventually always leak out. Some would take hours others would hold oil a few days.
 

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I'm not, the parts guides I have seen still state 899. Unless the parts guides change I think more filter media is better so I'll stay with 899. My build date is march 2013
 

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My 2011 Hemi, I use quality aftermarket 899 as reference oil filters, like Wix. Never had a problem. I also use Synthetic Oil. At the moment, I've got a Mopar 899 Oil filter on the engine.

Judging from how the vehicle was neglected by the Previous Owner, it's a good bet that conventional oil was used.

The only time I have ever gotten valvetrain noise, tapping was the first oil change when removing the filter drained all the oil out of the block. Filled with Synthetic Oil and Wix Filter, but conventional oil was still inside the lifters. That first start to fill the engine with oil, a few seconds after starting with no noise I got tapping from the lifters for about 5-6 seconds and then it went away.

Subsequent starts, no noise.
Subsequent first start after oil/filter change, no noise. (Which the lifters had synthetic oil pumped through them for 7-8k miles, which if there was any varnish or gumming, might have gotten rid of it).

One last to consider, the incorrectly graduated dipstick that had everyone overfilling their HEMI's by a quart of oil. This could cause foaming oil, and foaming oil will cause lifters to collapse and tic, as well as oil getting in the intake, being burned and making blue exhaust smoke.

Collapsing lifters at high rpm can cause lifter and cam damage, could that be behind the lifters/cam failing for #5 cylinder?

I got the updated Dipstick after my first oil change, which I never had ticking lifters again, or burning oil, after switching to the updated dipstick. But to be honest, when I had the ticking lifters after the first oil change, I had only added 6 quarts of oil to the filter and pan, and only after starting and circulating oil to fill the engine did I check the dipstick and added oil till I had filled it to 8 quarts.
 

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Not sure how oil "leaks" got into the discussion, sorry if missed it below.... the larger, pre 10/14 899 filter has a bypass pressure diff of 16psi, whereas, the smaller, post 10/14 339 filter is 12psi...they made the change for a reason...the anti drain back is not the end all for top startup oiling needs...it doesn't hold "that" much oil...gotta figure maybe the earlier bypass was aimed at increasing oil volume to top end for startups...I am not thinking there were any 5.7 changes at 10/14 split except maybe some ecm/pcm tweaking...just spitballing here.

Btw, I pm'd Milous inquiring about any more info on the 899/339 10/14 change.
Any luck getting the know the difference between the two oil filters?
Why newer cars have the smaller 339? Order the 899!
 

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My 2015, Hemi powered GC is not daily driven. Sometimes it sits for 10-12 days between uses, so I expect that over that time, the pressure on the lifters, that are up an "open" cam lobe, may push the oil out of those lifters. Therefore, I have experienced a "lifter clatter" occur, for 2-3 seconds, every so often, on a cold start. It does go away promptly, however.

I've used Pennzoil Platinum oil from the 500 mile mark, when I did the first oil change, and have used both K&N, as well as Purolator BOSS oil filters. With respect to the comment about the oil filter draining, I highly doubt that. While not 100% vertical, like a Chevrolet oil filter, the Hemi filter is mounted on a downward slant, which should at least keep the filter 40-50% full at all times.
 

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My dealer doesn't put the production date on the invoice but I took delivery of my 2014 V8 on 2/17/2014. It has always been dealer serviced, I switched to synthetic at 3000 miles and continue with synthetic. Only went as far back as the last two oil changes and both show the 899 filter. I now have 72K miles and have not had the ticking lifters at start-up. That said I drive the Jeep daily and being garaged in AZ, I don't have the cold temps found in other parts of the country which certainly helps my oil circulation at start-up. However, I'm keeping my fingers crossed as I've read too many posts about hemi lifters failing and ruining the cam.
 
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