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2020 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk, ProCharged 5.7L Hemi
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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
When it happens to me I have went above 5,500 RPM's with manual shifting. It is between the 1-2 shift. The engine light comes on, a bell starts to ring and it goes into limp mode. The center of the dash shows something like check 4 wheel drive system or all wheel drive system. Next time it happens I need to take a picture of what the dash says. Happens at the most opportune time and I need to pull to the side of the road, shut it down and restart to disable limp mode in it and keep going. Engine light comes back on until x number of starts or I clear the code with the tuner.
Does yours go into limp mode?
Like you said it is like the transmission has a Rev limit.
The Diabo PMC tune really makes the transmission shift much better with almost instant drop in RPM's.
When uploading an ECU tune it asks if you want to overwrite the factory PMC for the Diabo tune and I do so. It doesn't jump up in rev's between gear changes.
Thanks again for sharing any of your experiences!
Yes, exactly the same dash lights up, limp home mode, transmission alerts, transfer case alerts... pull over, turn it off, and restart the engine and all is well.

In HP Tuners there is a log for 'Throttle Torque Source'. it should read; Pedal, meaning the gas pedal is controlling the engines power. If you reach the Rev-Limiter set by the ECM, it will read 'Rev-Limit', indicating the you reached the engine's rev-limit (and will cut spark and fuel), if you go over that (usually because of momentum, and because the transmissions rev-limiter is set really close to the engines rev-limiter) it will read 'Transmission', indicating that you hit the transmissions rev-limiter. at which time, as in my case, limp home mode, Check Engine Light, dash indicators, etc.

Taking a picture of the dash after is happens won't help, you will have to be data logging to see the cause.

My tune is set up so that I have really good power, throttle and shift response in ECO Mode ON, ECO Mode OFF I have an improved throttle and shift response (Kind of compared to when it was stock, over ECO Mode ON), and Sport mode has even more throttle and shift characteristics (compared to when it was stock, with Sport Mode ON).

From a standing start, in automatic mode, I bounced off of the transmission limiter hard in ECO Mode OFF, I didn't even try it in Sport Mode.

If I didn't want this to happen, mainly because I wanted to use the "Transmission's Tune" (calibration) to shift for me, from a standing start, in manual mode, I would 1>2 shift at 5000, it would complete the shift at 6100-ish, 2>3 at 5500 and it would complete the shift at 6100-ish, and then I would flit the transmission selector in to automatic mode to complete the shift 4, 5, and 6... I am assuming that because in the higher gears, there was less momentum between the gears.

To cure this, as bad as it sounds, we raised the Transmission's rev-limit to 6800 to keep the Jeep off of the transmissions rev-limiter. I haven't had it happen since, in any drive mode.

... sorry, I get a little long winded at times. :D
 

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That's awesome you found the root cause. Sounds completely sensible.
With the 3.7 gears it is really hard to manually hit the shift right where you want as it spins up a lot faster than the 3.09's did.
The Dyno sheet showed it was still building horsepower at 6,000 where they shut it down. Shifting at 5,500 it's down about 20hp so there is something to be gained.
My ECO mode is locked out and I have the best luck in sport mode as it shifts very fast and firm with the Diabo PMC tune. I can't get in and change any parameters such as shift points or max rev limits so I'll have to get a hold of Hemifever to up the trans rpm limit and shift points another 500.
You have definitely done a lot of troubleshooting! Again, great job!
 

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RIP stock internals……even on 6psi of boost your balls have to be enormous to even consider boosting this thing. I’m a Stellantis technician, I’ve seen firsthand what happens to pistons and rods on a stock engine, it’s not pretty. HEMIs do not do well with boost so I’d be careful if I were you if you plan on really running it hard.
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
RIP stock internals……even on 6psi of boost your balls have to be enormous to even consider boosting this thing. I’m a Stellantis technician, I’ve seen firsthand what happens to pistons and rods on a stock engine, it’s not pretty. HEMIs do not do well with boost so I’d be careful if I were you if you plan on really running it hard.
Hopefully I have taken enough of the right steps to keep this thing together. Back in the Daimler Chrysler days we were certified through the Chrysler Academy; I too have seen how poor decisions can effect the internals of the Hemi... lol
 

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Yes for the rpm limit.
I don't know it well enough to play with shift point rpm's yet.
It might be worth it to be able to adjust that myself vs. spending more money to have someone else do it that has the Diablo software. If I may ask, what all would I need to order from HP Tuners? Already have several laptops I could use. Guessing software and a OBDII cable to USB to hook to the the computer or is there some other means to upload/download tunes? Looks like the price for the software is not too bad.
If I go that route I could then change the thermostat and adjust fan kick-in temps like you did as I think running around 200°-203° is a little high.
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
It might be worth it...
I could then change the thermostat and adjust fan kick-in temps like you did as I think running around 200°-203° is a little high.
The software is free. HP tuners has it set up so that you have to buy credits for each vehicle. My example would be; you have to buy 2 credits for the engine, and four credits for the transmission.

Once you have the credits for your vehicle you can make all the modifications to the tune/calibration that you want.

But, only works for one vehicle. You need a new license/credit for each additional engine or transmission you want to tune.

You need an MPVI2+ interface, 2 credits for the engine, and 4 credits for the transmission. Credits are $50 apiece.

I bought my interface with credits on Amazon and saved a couple hundred dollars.
HP Tuners Standard (2 Credits) There are other deals out there, just shop around first. Summit Racing has a variety of options to choose from, HP Tuners M02-000-04, comes with the MPVI2+ interface and 4 credits.

The interface comes with a USB cable that plugs into their interface to your computer.

I was able to wire up a USB/Serial cable to my Wide Band O2 gauge to get the fuel readings that I needed for the HP tuners software (YouTube is your friend on How To).

HP tuners comes with two programs. VCM Editor for reading and writing the calibration files, and VCM scanner for datalogging.

What I have learned, the stock thermostat for 5.7 is a 203-degree thermostat with the factory fan settings at 223 for the high-speed fan, and 219 for the low-speed fan.

I went with a 180-degree thermostat and set my fans up accordingly, 201 for the high-speed fan, and 196 for the low-speed fan.
I have had <grammar> 2, 180 thermostats fail on me already. Both got stuck in the closed position caused a me to overheat. I ended up cutting the welds off the regulating portion of the thermostat and just running just the outer portion as a reducer (The outer portion of the thermostat is needed because of the O-ring).

Even without a thermostat my 5.7 runs steady at 185-degrees all day long, I did run at about 201 going up the mountain pulling a trailer (weighing about 6200 pounds). that's the same temperature it was running when the thermostat was working, it just takes a little bit longer to warm up.
 

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2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee TrailHawk 5.7L HEMI soon to be procharged!! Just waiting on the mail man!!
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excellent write up on your install its been a huge help with a path to getting the trigger pulled to procharge my truck. I have my procharger ordered and it should be here any day now, went with the p1x upgrade, polished, conical gears and standard valve. it will be going on my 2017 jeep grand cherokee trailhawk 5.7 hemi
couple of questions if you dont mind helping out before i get started....

-Did your stock fuel pump hold up to the needs or did you run a boost a pump or replace your fuel pump?

-my year runs off the diablo tuner from procharger so thats what i went with, received my unlocked PCM a few days back and installed it and been running it (no tune yet just wanted to get some miles on it to make sure all was well) im planning to run the diablo trinity 2 ex display for gauges since it has many options for about the same cost. it plugs into the obd-II port to pull its info, do you know if jeeps provide wideband A/F info through the obd that will be usable with the trinity? would that be from the lambada sensor?
also where are you pulling your boost reading from im going to have to order a boost pressure sender for the trinity as well, also some kind of fuel pressure sending unit. i figured the trinity LCD display would be the best option for mounting and flexibility any help would be appreciated. trying to get all the kinks worked out before i start my install here in a few days. Your thread has been a huge help. (im in ca also been dealing with all the carb eo questions so i feel your pain)
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 · (Edited)
excellent write up on your install its been a huge help with a path to getting the trigger pulled to procharge my truck. I have my procharger ordered and it should be here any day now, went with the p1x upgrade, polished, conical gears and standard valve. it will be going on my 2017 jeep grand cherokee trailhawk 5.7 hemi
couple of questions if you dont mind helping out before i get started....

-Did your stock fuel pump hold up to the needs or did you run a boost a pump or replace your fuel pump?

-my year runs off the diablo tuner from procharger so thats what i went with, received my unlocked PCM a few days back and installed it and been running it (no tune yet just wanted to get some miles on it to make sure all was well) im planning to run the diablo trinity 2 ex display for gauges since it has many options for about the same cost. it plugs into the obd-II port to pull its info, do you know if jeeps provide wideband A/F info through the obd that will be usable with the trinity? would that be from the lambada sensor?
also where are you pulling your boost reading from im going to have to order a boost pressure sender for the trinity as well, also some kind of fuel pressure sending unit. i figured the trinity LCD display would be the best option for mounting and flexibility any help would be appreciated. trying to get all the kinks worked out before i start my install here in a few days. Your thread has been a huge help. (im in ca also been dealing with all the carb eo questions so i feel your pain)

Our Jeeps have a large enough pump, with a secondary pickup on the right side. There isn't a need to a fuel pump upgrade.

I do not know the Diablo system. As far as AFR, the OBD port will give you o2 voltage but not actual AFRs. I ran my own Wideband and pulled my AFR from the gauge to the HPtuner software.
I am using the AEM Uego Gauge (30-4110NS) and Bosch Wideband Sensor (17025) Kit. Per the tuners request, I was able to change the reading from the AEM gauge from A/F to Lambda.

For the Vacuum/Boost gauge, Added a block that has a couple ports for adding a gauge (comes in the Procharger kit). I tapped in to the hose feeding the brake power booster right up against the firewall, just in front of the air filter (it is between the air filter and the firewall).

The fuel pressure sending unit plugs into the fuel line right before the plastic fuel rail feed line via a Nitrous Outlet Fuel Line Adapter. Stupid simple way of safely adding a fuel pressure gauge/sending unit.

Ask away, I don't mind at all.
 

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Cool so ill stick with the stock pump and monitor my fuel pressure. Getting my gauges ordered today was going to go with the diablo trinity display but with all the extras needed and still having to buy all the sensors anyways its cheaper to just go with gauges.

Did you ever end up with a gauge mounting solution? Ive found a few sites that make aftermarket 3 gauge a pilar mounts but theres always that question of theres an airbag behind it. I know the stock a pilars are tethered and designed to swing toward the windshield and airbag toward you. But theres still a chance of 3 gauges smacking you in the face.. I guess its part of the chance we take modding unless you found a better way. What did you end up doing?.

Going with:
30-4110 wideband bosch air fuel kit
30-4401 fuel pressure kit
30-4406 boost/vac kit
And using the fuel pressure adapter you recommended earlier.
 

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Discussion Starter · #72 ·
Cool so ill stick with the stock pump and monitor my fuel pressure. Getting my gauges ordered today was going to go with the diablo trinity display but with all the extras needed and still having to buy all the sensors anyways its cheaper to just go with gauges.

Did you ever end up with a gauge mounting solution? Ive found a few sites that make aftermarket 3 gauge a pilar mounts but theres always that question of theres an airbag behind it. I know the stock a pilars are tethered and designed to swing toward the windshield and airbag toward you. But theres still a chance of 3 gauges smacking you in the face.. I guess its part of the chance we take modding unless you found a better way. What did you end up doing?.

Going with:
30-4110 wideband bosch air fuel kit
30-4401 fuel pressure kit
30-4406 boost/vac kit
And using the fuel pressure adapter you recommended earlier.
This is the kit that I went with, it has all three gauges. AEM made it easy.
AEM 3 Gauges Combo Set UEGO WideBand A/F Ratio (30-4110) + Oil Pressure (30-4401) + Turbo Boost (30-4406)

The oil pressure gauge is also a fuel pressure gauge, just different gauge faces (which are included).
 

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The kit is like $200 cheaper than individual kits of each gauge needed Not bad!! Did the face plates come with a fuel pressure face or only oil pressure in both colors?
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
The kit is like $200 cheaper than individual kits of each gauge needed Not bad!! Did the face plates come with a fuel pressure face or only oil pressure in both colors?
Yes, for both.
 

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I have also been looking at mounting the 3 gauge setup like Ed but since I already have a Diablo Trinity to monitor everything else it would be redundant and I'm looking to spend that money elsewhere. I have the Trinity 1000 and sounds like you have the newer model trinity 2 ex which looks a little nicer in my opinion. I would still want to keep that in for data logging... as it is easier than hooking up a laptop and driving around with it. You would also need the HP Tuners or ? software if you don't want to keep the trinity anymore.
I believe you can just get a fuel pressure sending unit and tie it into the Diablo to display pressure or it may be possible that there is a PID already assigned and it just has to be added as a gauge to the trinity, I have not investigate it, but will. I monitor boost pressure, timing, factory O2 sensors, oil pressure and several other things through the trinity but think the pillar gauges just look cool. I did hookup the 3 gauge pillar setup in a Chey truck that I did a Procharger on as I only got him the standard intune handheld so he had no way to monitor anything in real time. I went with digital to analog fuel pressure gauge, analog boost and a full digital O2 gauge as I like the seeing the sweep of the gauges as the digital numbers can change quickly and can be hard to read consistently, but that is a personal preference.
Welcome to the group! Sounds like you have the same Jeep as mine. With that being said you are going to be in the same situation that Ed and I have had with the trans RPM limit. I'm going to have to pull the trigger and get the HP Tuners software and reprogram the limit as it really sucks it goes into limp mode. Maybe you can get Procharger to address it or Diablo.

If you have not uploaded the performance tune from Diablo yet you should as the trans update (TCM) is awesome and will take around 1 second off your current 0-60 times. I bought the trinity for improvements to the stock setup along with a CAI before going with the procharger. It was a very good gain in performance.
 

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thanks procharged jeep for the info couple of questions then.
So im torn between a 3 gauge setup or running the trinity mx (california legal crap but will still have a diablo i3 tuner supplied by procharger that is ca compliant). from what there telling me at diablo theres no way to get a fuel pressure reading on the trinity itself so youll have to still run a gauge for that. (its probably the easiest of gauges to install at least) is this what you did? or did you get your trinity to read fuel pressure?
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are you using your factory 02 gauges to get an air fuel ratio on the trinity? im still trying to find out if the stock 02 sensors are wideband? if not ill have to do a bung weld and install a wideband to send the info to the trinity.
i would only have to purchase a boost sending unit to get the boost info to display on the trinity. so id save on a full gauge setup.

mounting 3 gauges is still an issue of where id put them. an a pillar mount is ideal but we have airbags behind them so a face full of gauges dosent sound good in the event of an accident. the trinity lcd screen would solve all of this for me so id really like to go that route.

the trans rpm limit is new news to me, i guess i havent heard about this issue yet? so what happens? what causes it and how do we get by it? ive got the unlocked pcm installed and am waiting on my procharger to show up, in the kit is the diablo i3 tuner so then i can get into the pcm and play around. i thought the procharger tune was only the ecm files and not any trans tune info? so ill need to look into a trans tune to deal with rpm limits?

thanks for all the help. really looking forward to this install... waiting on the mail man!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Happy to help in any way. As you also mentioned IDoMy0wnRacin writeup is a great resource of information and this post he started is great information for all of us!
Below is right off the Diablo website about adding gauges/inputs. As it states you can add just about any input that you are looking for.

I log the factory O2 sensors as that is what the computer is using to adjust fuel ratios and that is the information I also sent to Hemifever to do a custom tune for me.
You can add any 0-5v sensor and it can be programmed to display either analog or digital type gauge output on your trinity.
Procharger has done a lot of engineering into these kits and they really are install and enjoy. The added gauges are nice but for this really mild type of setup not really needed unless you are going to be going in and tuning fuel tables and other parameters yourself to get that last little bit of performance like Ed is working on. But I have to say, they are sweet looking.

As far as the trans issue. This has an is my biggest complaint. If you try and manually shift you may get into what Ed found as a trans rpm limit. It throws the engine into limp mode and you have to pull over, shut the engine down and restart. It will still give you an engine warning light after restart but you can clear it with the trinity. It will stop coming up after 3 starting cycles I found but is still held by the computer I believe. The trinity has a "clear all codes" which works well.
During data logging I found mine is shifting at 5,400-5,500 rpm's. The 7psi horsepower number is based on around 6,000 rpm's from what my dyno sheet shows. That is a couple of psi difference at 5,500 and an easy 30hp loss. The diablo TCM program that you should be able to download and install helps the trans shift schedule and firmness/speed of the shifts. It is an option to program when uploading the engine tune.

I'm just about to order the HP Tuners software so I can go in and increase the trans rpm limit and not have it go into limp mode. Once you have it happen you won't want it to happen again as it will scare the crap out of you thinking that something has gone horribly wrong!

EAS Expandability

Having the best gauge setup on the market definitely satisfies the needs of most. The Trinity MX has the ability to go way beyond that with the Expandable Accessory System. The EAS product line allows you to add basically any sensor you can think of to your T2. Wideband O2 sensors for your custom-tuned car or truck, EGT sensors for your diesel-powered towing machine, and basically anything you can think of that you want displayed on your monitor, the T2 can handle it. Boost pressure, intake or trans temps, we have solutions for anything you want to see and include in your logs! Now you’re not limited to buying bulky analog gauges because the vehicle manufacturer forgot that one important parameter that you need to keep an eye on!
 

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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
thanks procharged jeep for the info couple of questions then.
So im torn between a 3 gauge setup or running the trinity mx (california legal crap but will still have a diablo i3 tuner supplied by procharger that is ca compliant). from what there telling me at diablo theres no way to get a fuel pressure reading on the trinity itself so youll have to still run a gauge for that. (its probably the easiest of gauges to install at least) is this what you did? or did you get your trinity to read fuel pressure?
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are you using your factory 02 gauges to get an air fuel ratio on the trinity? im still trying to find out if the stock 02 sensors are wideband? if not ill have to do a bung weld and install a wideband to send the info to the trinity.
i would only have to purchase a boost sending unit to get the boost info to display on the trinity. so id save on a full gauge setup.

mounting 3 gauges is still an issue of where id put them. an a pillar mount is ideal but we have airbags behind them so a face full of gauges dosent sound good in the event of an accident. the trinity lcd screen would solve all of this for me so id really like to go that route.

the trans rpm limit is new news to me, i guess i havent heard about this issue yet? so what happens? what causes it and how do we get by it? ive got the unlocked pcm installed and am waiting on my procharger to show up, in the kit is the diablo i3 tuner so then i can get into the pcm and play around. i thought the procharger tune was only the ecm files and not any trans tune info? so ill need to look into a trans tune to deal with rpm limits?

thanks for all the help. really looking forward to this install... waiting on the mail man!!!!!!!!!!
I do not have anything Dialbo. I have/use the HPtuners software, which requires me to hook up a laptop.

I am using a triple gauge pod with stand-alone gauges, there are PIDs available in the HPtuner software from me to gather information from the AEM gauges (o2) for data logging.

The Procharger tune is ECM only. Because I added more (larger Throttle Body, Intake manifold, larger Injectors, and Long Tube Headers, etc.), I needed an aftermarket tune to take full advantage of my modifications. With that said, if I was going to upgrade the ECM, might as well upgrade the TCM to work better with the engines upgrades. I went with Dusterhoff Tuning, he has a very good reputation for 'Complete' remote tuning on Mopar vehicles. If you are going to add 200+ horse power to your engine, you should have a transmission that can support that additional horse power.

If you stick with the Dialbo/Procharger tune, you won't have to worry about the Transmission's RPM rev limiter. Because Procharger is marketed on a Safe Reliable, California Compliant upgrade, they are not going to raise the "redline" of your Jeep. Your Jeep will still shift at a factory safe 5700-ish RPMs.
 
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