[Raptor]

Really don't want to get in the middle of this........ but if you turn the A/C on while sitting in an idling WK2 that has coolant temps at 220*+ the fans will immediately turn on and the coolant temperature will decrease! Thats the way your WK2 works, as designed by the engineers who built it.

If you don't believe me, go out and try it in your driveway.

 

[Raptor]

My apologies to the OP, we sure highjacked your thread.

This is not a reliable test. The ambient temperature will play a big part in the results.

If the A-C condenser is mounted in front of the radiator, the fan will pull "hotter" than ambient temperature air (with A-C on) across the radiator and the engine cooling will be less efficient.

Your missing the point, with coolant temps over 220* an idling WK2 will kick on the fans and lower the coolant temperature. All the time, every time!
Doesn't matter what the ambient temp is.

 

[Raptor]

And yet, the owner's manual says to shut the A/C off. Thats only for an overheated engine condition, with a malfunctioning cooling system, not during normal engine operation!

I guess only you and the engineers know about this.

Hey don't believe me.... what the hell do I know.

And no, not just me and the Chyrsler engineers know about this, everyone who has turned on the A/C under these conditions does as well.

Why don't you go sit in your idling WK2 with the A/C off, let it get good and hot & when the coolant temps reach 220* turn on the A/C.

Now listen for the fans to kick on and watch the coolant temperature go down! Now you will also know! Do it again just to be sure and get back to us all!

 

[Raptor]

It is to laugh. The factory thermostat is a 195 so what is wrong with wanting to keep it under 200 ? I know the factory does not turn fans on until later but do you think that any company that would come up with a "switch pitch" oil pump might keep the cooling fans off just to save load ?

Personally I have been running computer cars in Florida with 180F thermostats and fans (dual) reprogrammed to come on at 185 for over two decades. Only outside effect I have seen is the a/c cools better and I conssitantly get better MPG than the EPA estimates. Oh and I cannot remember losing a fan belt or radiator hose.

Is another reason: I suspect that heat is a factor in the Pentastar head issue. I do have a lifetime warrenty (says to 2099) so is more of I have just found that running an engine about 10% cooler than the factory settings result in much longer life of everything under the hood (particularly rubber items).

Another factor is that the temperature on a thremostat is just where it begins to open. While a fast thermostat like a Stant Superstat (plug) opens in 3-5 degrees, a typical OEM thermostat takes more like 10-12 degrees to fully open so a 180 will open fully around 192.

OK question one: anyone know of a 180F thermostat for a Pentastar (and the four piece design makes it more difficult than a standard 44mm thermostat) ?

Question two: does anyone know of a seperate device that could attach to the upper radiator hose and turn the fan on when coolant is flowing and stopped at a light or in slow traffic ? (I may just install a toggle switch).

ps running an a/c compressor puts a load on an engine (once saw 10hp for an A6) which makes it generate more heat that must go somewhere. I suspect the main reason the fan comes on with the a/c is that you would not get any cooling at a stop light without. Turning the heater on full add a second small radiator with its own fan so can help an overtemp if not caused by low coolant.

Nothing wrong will wanting to run a little cooler, especially in the Florida heat. Your points are valid and lower coolant temps would be beneficial to the long term life of your engine and most everything else under the hood.

Just don't go crazy, your WK2 was designed to operate in a chosen coolant temp range, too cold would be almost as bad as to hot. What you want is the ability to turn on the fans at a lower temp. than their programmed too right now. On my C4 Corvette this can be done with a lower auxillary fan coolant temp. switch. On a WK2 a tuner may be the only way to change these coolant fan temp. settings. I would look into that along with a lower temp thermostat that compliments the new lower fan settings.

 

[Raptor]

With coolant temps over 220 degrees, the fan will already be on regardless whether or not the A-C is turned on. Your theory is flawed. Turning on the A-C will cause an additional load on the engine and and also decrease the efficiency of the cooling system.
No you are incorrect, at idle with no heat or A/C on your WK2 will reach coolant temps. over 220*. Why don't you try it before you post incorrect assumptions!
Under these conditions, turning on the A-C will only cause a more severe overheating condition. Turning off the A-C will help will help alleviate the overheating condition.

I enjoy a good debate, but we can't debate the laws of physics.

Physics tell us that you can't "make" coolness. You can't destroy heat, but you can move it around. The compressor makes one side cooler by making the other side even hotter; it moves the heat. This heat is fed into the engine's cooling system.

Its not a theory. And I'm not debating the laws of physics, I'm telling you how the control system of your WK2 is designed to work.

It's a fact, again I ask why don't you go out in your driveway and try it! Really.... give it a shot, and you would see for yourself and end this argument!

I'm not "making coolness" I'm activating the engines cooling fans to lower the coolant temp. You can manually activate these fans by turning on the A/C....why can't you understand that? The increased airflow over the radiator and condensor is what lowers the coolant temp.

Yes if the fans were already on the coolant wouldn't be at 220* AND yes activating the A/C does create an additional load on the system which will eventually introduce more heat into the coolant....... BUT turning on the A/C before the system kicks them on automatically will activate the fans at whatever the coolant temp. is at now (as long as it's not below a predetermined coolant temp.) and the system as designed, would begin to lower that coolant temp with the increased airflow across the radiator and condensor.

One more thing if your running a coolant temp. of 220* plus and the cooling fans are all on and the coolant temp. doesn't go down you have a problem with your cooling system. It obviously isn't working as desiged, and turning off the A/C and or turning on the heat would be the correct thing to do to lower the coolant temps. as much as possible before you bring it in to get looked at!

 

[Raptor]

Let's quote your original post:

"Really don't want to get in the middle of this........ but if you turn the A/C on while sitting in an idling WK2 that has coolant temps at 220*+ the fans will immediately turn on and the coolant temperature will decrease! Thats the way your WK2 works, as designed by the engineers who built it."

That's simply not true since the fan is already on. The temps are likely to increase by turning the A-C on. That's all I ever stated. For some reason, you want to continue to twist your statement until you feel it is correct (it ain't going to happen). NO THE FANS ARE NOT ALREADY ON AT IDLE!!

I am not going to argue the fact that the fan comes on when the coolant temperature rises above a preset temperature. That's not what we were discussing. We were discussing whether or not activating the A-C will reduce coolant temps. This is where the law of physics applies.

"If you don't believe me, go out and try it in your driveway. "

There is no way for me to try this since my cooling system is working properly. The fan will be on before the coolant temp. reaches 220.

NO INCORRECT AGAIN! YOU WILL HIT TEMPS IN EXCESS OF 220*AT IDLE EVEN WITH A PERFECTLY OPERATING COOLING SYSTEM! ONCE AGAIN TRY IT!!


Yes please reread what I have posted!!

For the last time!

Go sit in your 2012 Summit turn it on with the heat & A/C off, let it idle for 35 ~40 minutes. Your coolant temps will go over 220*!! Yes even with a perfectly operating cooling system you will hit over 220* TRY IT BEFORE YOU ARGUE!!!

My 2012 Summit (5.7 Hemi) hit 224* today at 42* ambient temp. after 33 minuted at idle in my driveway.

When I hit the A/C button at 224*,temp control set to 60*, the fans kicked on and the coolant temps. dropped to 210* in abount a minute and a half!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not a theory, not my imagination, just the facts! I manually activated the cooling fans by turning on the A/C at 224* before the control system built into my WK2 could activate them.

I invite any and all forum members to also try this and end this debate once and for all! :slapfight:

 

[Raptor]

Well yeah, you were pulling 42 degree air across the condenser and radiator plus the fact that there was minimal load on the A-C at 42 degree ambient.

Do you think if it was 95* ambient temp. and I was pulling 95* air across the radiator and condensor the coolant temps. wouldn't decrease?

Try your test again at 95 degree ambient temp. and report back to all forum members. You will prove to yourself that your prior statement "Your missing the point, with coolant temps over 220* an idling WK2 will kick on the fans and lower the coolant temperature. All the time, every time! Doesn't matter what the ambient temp is." is completely incorrect.

No it's not! At 95* ambient temp. it wouldn't take as long for your WK2 to reach 220*+ at idle & you could do my real world test in alot less time! Once again I challenge you to try it!

I'll be honest with you, I think at this point in time you are embarrassing yourself and I choose to no longer debate.

Peace

:lol::lol: I'm embarrassing myself? :lol::lol:

Hows that?

Why don't you do what I suggest and perform my real world test with your Summit in your driveway???

:lol: Report back to us what you found and then tell me who's embarrassed! :lol:

How long do you think it will be before another forum member trys my real world test and reports back the facts??

Yea I think if I were you I would also "choose to no longer debate"

 

[Raptor]

Wait!

:lol::lol: I'm I the brunette on top? Or the blond on the bottom? :lol::lol:

 

[Raptor]

You are the Brunette on top, given that her claws are out, like a Raptor. Beware, however, the blonde is taking a photocopy of her own arse, which will momentarily disarm you, and will soon regain top position.


My pleasure. Just staying OT ie: too hot.

:lol::lol: Ooo Noo! Thanks for the heads up...... now I know what to watch for to keep that Blonds tail nailed down! :lol: :lol:

 

[Raptor]

I'll add to this:

CAUTION!
Driving with a hot cooling system could damage
your vehicle. If the temperature gauge reads HOT
(H), pull over and stop the vehicle. Idle the vehicle
with the air conditioner turned off until the pointer
drops back into the normal range. If the pointer
remains on HOT (H), and you hear continuous
chimes, turn the engine off immediately and call for
service.

Cooling System
To reduce potential for engine and transmission overheating,
take the following actions:
− City Driving
When stopped for short periods of time, shift the transmission
into NEUTRAL and increase engine idle speed.
− Highway Driving
Reduce speed.
− Air Conditioning
Turn off temporarily.

Let me repost what I said in post # 32 of this thread; cut, pasted, & unedited except for the bold letters......

One more thing if your running a coolant temp. of 220* plus and the cooling fans are all on and the coolant temp. doesn't go down you have a problem with your cooling system. It obviously isn't working as desiged, and turning off the A/C and or turning on the heat would be the correct thing to do to lower the coolant temps. as much as possible before you bring it in to get looked at!

Same advise as given in the trusty Jeep Owners manual!!

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT AN OVERHEATED VEHICLE OR ONE WITH A COOLING SYSTEM THAT ISN'T WORKING AS DESIGNED!!

Still haven't tried my real world test with your Summit in your driveway??

Or maybe you have, and you can't bring yourself to post your findings! :lol:

You can cut and paste all you want for the Owners manual from the "If Your Engine Overheats Section" that doesn't change the facts I have posted, nor will it change the incorrect assumptions you have posted on how you think the cooling system of your Summit actually works!

 

[Raptor]

Remember your original post on this topic?

Here it is:

"Really don't want to get in the middle of this........ but if you turn the A/C on while sitting in an idling WK2 that has coolant temps at 220*+ the fans will immediately turn on and the coolant temperature will decrease! Thats the way your WK2 works, as designed by the engineers who built it.

If you don't believe me, go out and try it in your driveway. "

All I ever said was this is not true because the fan will already be on at 220*+. Your real world test is not possible with a properly functioning cooling system. YES I KNOW WHAT YOU SAID & IT"S WRONG!!!

For the third time in this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOUR FANS WILL NOT BE ON UNTIL ABOUT ~ 225*
TRY IT......Enlighten yourself.... STOP THE IGNORANCE!!!!!!!!!!!! EVEN WITH A PROPERLY FUNCTIONING COOLING SYSTEM!!!! TRY IT!! TRY IT!! TRY IT!! GET THE MESSAGE!!

I wasn't attacking you or anything like that. It's nothing personal. I simply corrected the misinformation. Isn't that what these forums are all about?

Bottom line: if your WK2 is running hot (220*+), Turn off the A-C. Do not turn on the A-C.

The misinformation posted in this thread HAS BEEN POSTED BY YOU!!!!!!!!!!
The assumptions on how you think a WK2 cooling system works are incorrect! The temps wouldn't get to 220*+ in an idling WK2 if the fans were already on!! They are not on until the coolant temps reach ~ 225*! By turning on the A/C you're activated the fans manually to immediately start lowering your coolant temps.

Again for the last time, put your butt in your Summit, in your driveway, pop the hood, set your EVIC to coolant temp, do my real world test & tell me who has posted misinformation! Enough already!!

 

[Raptor]

Try putting your head under the hood of your Summit, instead of banging it against an imaginary wall, and watch your incorrect assumptions go up in smoke like that dope you must be smoking!

What have you got to lose?

Possibly your credibility!! :lol::lol:

It's OK to admit it when your wrong.... we all are sometimes!

 

[Raptor]

For the first time ever, I just utilized the ignore member list. I can't keep beating my head against the wall while trying to talk to a teenager.

Teenager? I wish..... middle aged with a bachelors in Engineering.

Either way.......with all the fibers in my being. THANK YOU!!!!!! I couldn't be more happy that you have chosen to ignore me, as well as the facts! :thumbsup:

 

[Raptor]

in what situation would you have a car idling for 30-40 minutes in a driveway?

Good question.

I find myself sitting in an idling car, when it's either very hot or very cold out waaaay to often. Some thing to do with work. Don't ask.

I found myself playing with the EVIC on my 2012 Summit, and watching the oil, coolant, and tranny temps during this down time. Hence..... why I can tell you exactly how hot the coolant will get before the cooling system controls turn the fans on, and at what temps the fans will turn off again. I have noted the exact coolant temps at which this occurs. I have also manually turned the fans on to lower my coolant temps. by hitting the A/C button many times as I have described in this thread.

 

[Raptor]

You don't need it to idle 30 min but 5 to prove Raptors (and mine since I claimed it first) statement

You do when it's less than 45* out......& why is it that you make a correct statement! :thumbsup:

And I have to argue your point for you? WTF!!

 

[Raptor]

I can't hear rappy anymore, but remember two wrongs will never make a right.

:lol: And unrepentant ignorance can be ignored but can never be helped! :lol:

 

[Raptor]

Did you see the pictures I posted in the PDF ? (well not for a Jeep but a Subaru). The sorcery worked at a balmy 37 Fahrenheit.
:slapfight: We are fighting a common enemy here )))

There is no enemy... just ignorance & misinformation as to how a WK2 cooling system is designed to work.

You do know that many other vehicles may operate the same way, but that doesn't have any bearing at all on what a 2011+ WK2 will or will not do cooling system wise. Just because a Subaru does something doesn't mean it's also true for a Jeep. Thats why I posted my real world experiences in a Jeep! :thumbsup:

 

[Raptor]

I was just reading a new thread on engine oil and tranny temps today which made me think of this old thread.

Link to that new thread;

http://www.jeepgarage.org/f222/transmission-and-oil-temperatures-71455-2.html

Link to post #19 of that thread by Pete_K;

http://www.jeepgarage.org/f222/transmission-and-oil-temperatures-71455-2.html#post987750

Which I have cut and pasted below;

*********************************************************************************
For reference, the highest trans temp I've seen was in snow mode creeping in horrible traffic (during the embarrassing snowmageddon experience here in Atlanta--spent 9 hours to go 15 miles including rescuing stranded people). My trans temp creeped up to 217F. Traffic was barely moving in the ice and snow for several hours. Starting in second in snow mode likely had something to do with it. Engine oil temp hovered between 226F and 235F.

The transmission temp would creep up to that max then the engine fan would come on and it would VERY quickly drop to 205-206F, fan would cycle down and it would creep up again. So, I turned on the A/C (keeping the heat on high) which kept the fan on a low cycle all the time and the trans temp then rapidly fell to 188F and stayed there.

In everyday driving mine will reach 194-197F EVENTUALLY. In stop and go with constant accelerations being used it might hit this temp and hover there after 15-20 minutes of this. On a highway trip, starting from a trans temp of 80F or so, it will take anywhere from 45-60 miles before it finally reaches 195F or so, depending on whether I have any spirited accelerations along the way.

Note: neither the trans oil temp or engine oil temps seem to be super accurate throughout the full range. When the vehicle has totally cooled to ambient (overnight or longer) my engine oil and trans temps will tend to read notably higher than ambient before startup. For example, this morning it was 39F outside and my oil and trans temps read 64F. This may be the bottom of the scale as I'm not sure if I've seen them lower, or it might be these particular sensors (same ones as the coolant temp sensor) are more inaccurate outside their center scale (pretty common for these types of sensors actually).
*********************************************************************************

Note the unedited blue bold paragraph I have highlighted from Mr Pete_K's post. What does this mean & what does this have to do with the discussion from this old thread?....... That as I have correctly posted several times in this thread ~ manually turning on your A/C will immediately engage the engine cooling fan which in turn will immediately begin to lower your coolant temps, tranny fluid temp., and engine oil temp. Just as Pete_K observed in his WK2 & I observed in mine!

This is how the engineers at Chrysler designed a WK2's cooling system to work. Not just my WK2 but everyone's WK2, even those who have posted in this thread who either don't believe me, or the facts!

 

[Raptor]

Doesn't matter if the compressor runs all the time or not. The condenser gets hot and that is mounted usually in front of the Radiator which will preheat the air before it hits the radiator. Even if it was behind it, it would still generate more heat. This is regardless of the added load on the engine for the compressor making it generate more heat as well. They also run pretty constant when it's really hot.

That only took me 20 seconds

It's probably the worst thing you could possibly do is turn on the A/C when you are concerned about overheating.

Now if you could run the A/C as a heat pump, that might help.

Did you read any of this thread before you posted??

Yes if your WK2 is overheating because for some reason your cooling system is damaged or otherwise not operating as designed you would not want to turn the A/C on............... but if your cooling system is operating as designed with no issues or problems....
Turning the A/C on, which immediately kicks the engine cooling fan on, will lower the coolant temps and eventually lower the temps of your oil and tranny fluid!!

 

[Raptor]

If it NEEDS the cooling fan (i.e. overheating), it would already be on, especially on a system "with no issues or problems....".

If the fan is not on, it's not overheating in the first place.

So you'd still just be adding heat.

Again I'll ask did you actually read any of this thread before you posted in it??

When your idle coolant temp. is over 220* F on a WK2 the cooling fan is still not on! Before you tell me at 220*F the fan should already be on, it won't be, because it wasn't designed to kick on until 224*F!...... Try it in your driveway and you'll see for yourself. A Jeep WK2 will immediately start to lower coolant temps when the A/C in turned on manually, which immediately activates the engines cooling fan!! Turning on the A/C is this instance (coolant over 220*F, fan still not engaged, at idle, not moving, or moving very slowly)........will not increase the coolant temp. it will by design, decrease it! Even if your adding heat to the system by activating the A/C!