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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am a former liberty owner (2005 MY) currently evaluating a 2015 and a 2017 Summit. I am a female driver who is not mechanically inclined, so heavily weigh this forum’s expertise to inform my judgement.

Both of the Summits I am considering have the california package and sienna/black interior (my preference). Both are one-owner and both have low mileage (22K mi on 2015, 17K mi on 2017).

The primary reason I prefer jeeps is for frequent (long) trips to the outer banks for on-the-beach driving in deep sand. I had a 1995 land rover discovery that was the absolute best drive in those conditions...WHEN IT WAS DRIVE-ABLE...there is not enough bandwidth to recount the problems with that vehicle, but it had a locking differential that was useful in that sand.

The liberty is fine, but showing her age, so I am upgrading, hopefully to a more comfortable road trip (although I have not found either summit seats to be as comfortable as 2012/14 overland seats i drove in 2015).

So, the differences between these particular vehicles:

2015:
HEMI V8 has quadra-drive II 4wd, rear limited slip differential, anti-lock 4w disc heavy duty brakes, 3.09 rear axle ratio, which seems on its face better for deep dry sand conditions on the OBX
Impeccable interior
Vehicle on lot a little over a month
Can possibly get a MOPAR 5 yr extended warranty through another dealer for about $350 annually
ACC/FCW intermittently inoperable (wipe sensor screen msg)
*** it is at jeep dealer now *I printed the resolution (replace front radar sensor) found on this forum for the service techs, after reading that most customers are told the problem can’t be replicated or they re-aligned the sensor and the problem recurred**

2017:
V6 (without all the stuff listed in 1 above for 2015)—I don’t find the ride as smooth or quiet a ride as the HEMI, but some say 2017 V6 is more more reliable
Vehicle on lot since DECEMBER 2017 (gives rise to question why is owner selling after just 1 year ownership)
22 more months on the bumper-to-bumper warranty
Parallel/perpendicular park assist (my mechanic says I will never miss this)
Lane departure warning (I do like this feature)
Traditional gear shift (the 2015 electric shift does not seem problematic to me—am I wrong?)

Not crazy about the 2017 dealer: fairly typical used-car-salesman tactics. Unless there is a compelling reason to choose the 2017 over the 2015, I am leaning toward 2015.

Not sure the price difference is worth it for 2017: $33400 for 2015 vs $40900 for 2017.
I did not have the sense the 2017 dealer would budge on price.

Opinions and advice welcome, thanks.
 

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2014 Summit 5.7 4wd 20" tires swapped to 18", added all skid plates
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I am a former liberty owner (2005 MY) currently evaluating a 2015 and a 2017 Summit. I am a female driver who is not mechanically inclined, so heavily weigh this forum’s expertise to inform my judgement.

Both of the Summits I am considering have the california package and sienna/black interior (my preference). Both are one-owner and both have low mileage (22K mi on 2015, 17K mi on 2017).

The primary reason I prefer jeeps is for frequent (long) trips to the outer banks for on-the-beach driving in deep sand. I had a 1995 land rover discovery that was the absolute best drive in those conditions...WHEN IT WAS DRIVE-ABLE...there is not enough bandwidth to recount the problems with that vehicle, but it had a locking differential that was useful in that sand.

The liberty is fine, but showing her age, so I am upgrading, hopefully to a more comfortable road trip (although I have not found either summit seats to be as comfortable as 2012/14 overland seats i drove in 2015).

So, the differences between these particular vehicles:

2015:
HEMI V8 has quadra-drive II 4wd, rear limited slip differential, anti-lock 4w disc heavy duty brakes, 3.09 rear axle ratio, which seems on its face better for deep dry sand conditions on the OBX
Impeccable interior
Vehicle on lot a little over a month
Can possibly get a MOPAR 5 yr extended warranty through another dealer for about $350 annually
ACC/FCW intermittently inoperable (wipe sensor screen msg)
*** it is at jeep dealer now *I printed the resolution (replace front radar sensor) found on this forum for the service techs, after reading that most customers are told the problem can’t be replicated or they re-aligned the sensor and the problem recurred**

2017:
V6 (without all the stuff listed in 1 above for 2015)—I don’t find the ride as smooth or quiet a ride as the HEMI, but some say 2017 V6 is more more reliable
Vehicle on lot since DECEMBER 2017 (gives rise to question why is owner selling after just 1 year ownership)
22 more months on the bumper-to-bumper warranty
Parallel/perpendicular park assist (my mechanic says I will never miss this)
Lane departure warning (I do like this feature)
Traditional gear shift (the 2015 electric shift does not seem problematic to me—am I wrong?)

Not crazy about the 2017 dealer: fairly typical used-car-salesman tactics. Unless there is a compelling reason to choose the 2017 over the 2015, I am leaning toward 2015.

Not sure the price difference is worth it for 2017: $33400 for 2015 vs $40900 for 2017.
I did not have the sense the 2017 dealer would budge on price.

Opinions and advice welcome, thanks.
To me this would be a very easy decision... In terms of actual basic vehicles, at their age and mileage they are for all practical purposes identical other than specific equipment. You will save enough buying the 2015 to pay for a lifetime maxcare warranty and never have to worry again about something expensive breaking PLUS you have plenty of saved money left over to pay for many years of the slight extra cost for gasoline in the V8. And you get the better drive train that's in the 2015 (rear LS, beefier axles, better brakes). The only thing I see you losing is the lane departure.. is that worth several thou$and dollar$ to you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
To me this would be a very easy decision... In terms of actual basic vehicles, at their age and mileage they are for all practical purposes identical other than specific equipment. You will save enough buying the 2015 to pay for a lifetime maxcare warranty and never have to worry again about something expensive breaking PLUS you have plenty of saved money left over to pay for many years of the slight extra cost for gasoline in the V8. And you get the better drive train that's in the 2015 (rear LS, beefier axles, better brakes). The only thing I see you losing is the lane departure.. is that worth several thou$and dollar$ to you?
Thanks—good points, Jim. I think the lane departure feature is appealing, but my primary concern is to make sure I am not going to hit something when intentionally changing lanes and the 2015 blind spot detection worked fine for me in the test drive.

If the jeep dealer replaces the front radar sensor to resolve the ACC/FCW problem, I can feel good about the 2015. I won’t be happy with a “can’t replicate the problem”, or “we wiped the sensor and you’re good to go”. Maybe a realignment will be ok, but that might be a temporary fix. I have read replacement is $2700–is that something that would be covered under MOPAR MAXCARE?
 

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Totally agree! The V8 has the beefier German built ZF 8 speed and doesn’t have the Stop/Start feature that annoys many owners. Since you don’t have a problem with the electronic shifter (I love it, too!) it would be an easy decision.
 
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2014Red: The V8 has same FCA built tranny. Only the diesels are built in Germany.

The HEMI fans are always going to be biased, and steer you toward the V8 model.

Here are my two cents...

- Sounds like you keep your vehicles a while so going for the newer one would serve you longer in that regard.
- The ELSD isn't going to be night and day in the sand as long as you air down.
- The 17 will be quieter for your road trips with the added acoustic glass.
- Water pumps and hydraulic power steering have issues in the HEMI.
- The 15 if you want to save some $ up front, prefer V8 power, or tow frequently.
- 17 has no faults stated. I would be concerned about the FCW/ACC on the 15. If the selling "Jeep" dealer hasn't bothered to address it before putting it up for sale, there are major issues with it, or they are pure clueless.

Good luck with the purchase. Keep us posted on which one you get.
 

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2014Red: The V8 has same FCA built tranny. Only the diesels are built in Germany.

The HEMI fans are always going to be biased, and steer you toward the V8 model.

Here are my two cents...

- Sounds like you keep your vehicles a while so going for the newer one would serve you longer in that regard.
- The ELSD isn't going to be night and day in the sand as long as you air down.
- The 17 will be quieter for your road trips with the added acoustic glass.
- Water pumps and hydraulic power steering have issues in the HEMI.
- The 15 if you want to save some $ up front, prefer V8 power, or tow frequently.
- 17 has no faults stated. I would be concerned about the FCW/ACC on the 15. If the selling "Jeep" dealer hasn't bothered to address it before putting it up for sale, there are major issues with it, or they are pure clueless.

Good luck with the purchase. Keep us posted on which one you get.
Incorrect. The ZF in the 2014 V8 is the same ZF transmission built by ZF, used in such items as hot-rot BMW's and such.

The V6 apologists will always try to compensate for "cylinder inadequacy" and "small engines" often with misinformation such as the alternate fact regarding the transmission that I guess would have to be called "ZF inadequacy".

I would go for the 2015 for two reasons:

1. It isn't THAT much older than the 2017, and the depreciation can buy you a lot of
aftermarket goodies besides an extended Mopar warranty if still eligible.
You may not actually need or want the V8, but it would have ELSD in the rear.
Buy a compressor so you can air down and back up if you play in sand a lot.

2. If you don't like the dealer on the 2017, don't give them a dime.
It may be a futile effort to Darwin certain dealer types out of existence but
at least you tried.
[note: if you have the vehicle details and a dealer you like, they may be able to trade for that vehicle if it warms your heart more than the 2015...dealers will often do that]
 

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They're selling Summits with a window sticker of $60,000. And the vast majority of these are V6. You could be very confident it is not inadequate in any way. If it was the jig would have been up long ago.

The electronic shifter was a pain in the a.. in my 2014. There's a reason they changed it.
 

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Incorrect. The ZF in the 2014 V8 is the same ZF transmission built by ZF, used in such items as hot-rot BMW's and such.
Yes, that is correct. In 2014 they were built by ZF in Germany. 2015 on are built by FCA here in the USA, identical to the V6's. She's asking about a 15, not a 14. :thumbsup:
 

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2014Red: The V8 has same FCA built tranny. Only the diesels are built in Germany.
Hmmm.... I know that at least for 2014 the transmissions for the V8 and diesel were German sourced. When I took delivery, my transmission had a pretty pink sticker on it that said “GERMANY” on it. :)
 

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Totally agree! The V8 has the beefier German built ZF 8 speed and doesn’t have the Stop/Start feature that annoys many owners. Since you don’t have a problem with the electronic shifter (I love it, too!) it would be an easy decision.
Do the '18 JGCs with the Hemi have the Stop/Start feature?
 

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2014Red: The V8 has same FCA built tranny. Only the diesels are built in Germany.

The HEMI fans are always going to be biased, and steer you toward the V8 model.

Here are my two cents...

- Sounds like you keep your vehicles a while so going for the newer one would serve you longer in that regard.
- The ELSD isn't going to be night and day in the sand as long as you air down.
- The 17 will be quieter for your road trips with the added acoustic glass.
- Water pumps and hydraulic power steering have issues in the HEMI.
- The 15 if you want to save some $ up front, prefer V8 power, or tow frequently.
- 17 has no faults stated. I would be concerned about the FCW/ACC on the 15. If the selling "Jeep" dealer hasn't bothered to address it before putting it up for sale, there are major issues with it, or they are pure clueless.

Good luck with the purchase. Keep us posted on which one you get.
Do the '18 JGCs with the Hemi have the Stop/Start feature?
No, none of the HEMI engines have that feature. Only the V6’s
 

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Hmmm.... I know that at least for 2014 the transmissions for the V8 and diesel were German sourced. When I took delivery, my transmission had a pretty pink sticker on it that said “GERMANY” on it. :)
AFAIK, the V8 and EcoDiesel transmission is still built by ZF, but in a US plant, not over in Germany. If I'm wrong, I missed something somewhere...
 
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AFAIK, the V8 and EcoDiesel transmission is still built by ZF, but in a US plant, not over in Germany. If I'm wrong, I missed something somewhere...
That's my understanding. The ZF 8HP70 for the V8 and EcoDiesel is produced under license at FCA's transmission plant just north of Kokomo, IN.
 

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That's my understanding. The ZF 8H70 for the V8 and EcoDiesel is produced under license at FCA's transmission plant just north of Kokomo, IN.
The early MY14 V8/diesel 8spds (8HP70) were built by ZF in Germany, sometime in the fall of 2013 ZF began making the MY14+ 8HP70s in their ZF plant in Atlanta, Georgia. The MY14+ v6 trans(845RE) was a ZF design that FCA mucked with and modified and made themselves in kokomo, Indiana. Key is ZF was still the manufacturer for the V8 and Diesel 8HP70 even though it is now made in Georgia and FCA makes the v6 845RE in Kokomo. A lot of shifting issues reported on the FCA 845RE on the MY14-MY15 but they got a lot of that worked out by MY16. I think they are also phasing in the 2nd gen which are 8HP75 and 850RE not sure when or if that has happened yet. This is how it was not sure if anything changed in the last year or so.
 

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AFAIK, the V8 and EcoDiesel transmission is still built by ZF, but in a US plant, not over in Germany. If I'm wrong, I missed something somewhere...
Thank you Jim, yes I believe you are correct. And thanks to everyone else for the updated info.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
To me this would be a very easy decision... In terms of actual basic vehicles, at their age and mileage they are for all practical purposes identical other than specific equipment. You will save enough buying the 2015 to pay for a lifetime maxcare warranty and never have to worry again about something expensive breaking PLUS you have plenty of saved money left over to pay for many years of the slight extra cost for gasoline in the V8. And you get the better drive train that's in the 2015 (rear LS, beefier axles, better brakes). The only thing I see you losing is the lane departure.. is that worth several thou$and dollar$ to you?
Good points, thanks. In test driving, I think the blind spot detection in the 2015 is good enough for me because it warns that there is something in my lane as long as I have my turn signal on. I don’t know if it’s my imagination, but the v8 felt like a better drive even in normal conditions and it seems like the drive on sand would feel more like the disco (when it ran).
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Totally agree! The V8 has the beefier German built ZF 8 speed and doesn’t have the Stop/Start feature that annoys many owners. Since you don’t have a problem with the electronic shifter (I love it, too!) it would be an easy decision.
I replied to Jim above, but got a msg that it’s being reviewed by a moderator, which seems odd.

Let’s see if this reply is accepted. Is it a big deal that the ZF transmission is built in Kokomo vs Germany?

Why do so many hate the electronic shifter? Is it a reliability issue? The original owner reportedly went back to Ford because he hated the shifter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
2014Red: The V8 has same FCA built tranny. Only the diesels are built in Germany.

The HEMI fans are always going to be biased, and steer you toward the V8 model.

Here are my two cents...

- Sounds like you keep your vehicles a while so going for the newer one would serve you longer in that regard.
- The ELSD isn't going to be night and day in the sand as long as you air down.
- The 17 will be quieter for your road trips with the added acoustic glass.
- Water pumps and hydraulic power steering have issues in the HEMI.
- The 15 if you want to save some $ up front, prefer V8 power, or tow frequently.
- 17 has no faults stated. I would be concerned about the FCW/ACC on the 15. If the selling "Jeep" dealer hasn't bothered to address it before putting it up for sale, there are major issues with it, or they are pure clueless.

Good luck with the purchase. Keep us posted on which one you get.
I have aired down to 15 lbs since my one and only embarrassmemt in 1995. Do you think I will have to take them down as low in the Summit?

I guess my head is spinning at this point; for some reason I thought the 2015 had the acoutic glass too, but I don’t see it on the build sheet.

Sounds like I need to check out the HEMI issues before making a final decision.

The ACC/FCW is a significant concern in the 2015. The dealer who is offering the summit is a ford dealer (it was a trade-in), but they sent it to the jeep dealer down the road for dx& repair. Still waiting to hear back on the resolution, which may be a good sign, in that they weren’t dismissive.

I am actually more concerned about the 2017 dealer, as there were two repair records on the carfax, PERFORMED AT THE DEALERSHIP, and they won’t give me the records. One repair was december 2017, the other 02/2018 and both list “interior accessory installed”.

The possibility of a lifetime MOPAR maxcare warranty gives me some comfort about both vehicles, but I want to start off with the best chances for a reliable vehicle over the long haul.

Yes, we keep our vehicles. My husband has a USED 1995 volvo that we took on a 1500 mile road trip last year
 

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I replied to Jim above, but got a msg that it’s being reviewed by a moderator, which seems odd.

Let’s see if this reply is accepted. Is it a big deal that the ZF transmission is built in Kokomo vs Germany?

Why do so many hate the electronic shifter? Is it a reliability issue? The original owner reportedly went back to Ford because he hated the shifter.
I didn't notice your previous reply to Jim was moderated...that's been taken care of.

Also the ZF transmission in for the V8 is not built in Kokomo...it's built in Georgia by ZF (not FCA) as pointed out by another community member. Same transmission and manufacturer; just built on this side of the big puddle.

Personally, I'd choose the 2017 of the two you detail, although I do understand that you feel the dealer offering it is a bit, um...well...you know... That's two model years newer and has some refinements not available on the 2015. And for me...I wouldn't want that electronic shifter found on the MY14-MY15. But that's me. :)
 
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The only thing I liked about the 14-15 shifter was that sport mode was on the shifter other than that I hated it. It would sometimes feel like it was in one gear but it was actually in another. Not to sound macabre but after the actor from Star Trek was killed by it, they recalled them and fixed it so now whenever the Jeep is off and you open the door it automatically goes into park.

But it still doesn't stop you from putting it in neutral when you think it's in drive and so on.
 
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