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Discussion Starter #1
Happened twice with tank showing less than 1/4 (>1/8) tank and estimated distance to travel over 100 miles.
Complete shut down of engine with codes P016F and P0087 (low fuel rail pressure) generated.
This is worse than limp mode, this is no power to anything
Lucky no one injured, but similar critical situation as to when GM car ignition self shut off, and we all know how that ended for some unfortunate souls. I feel very fortunate that I escaped unharmed with only fried nerves. I advised dealer service to push the warning up the chain. If this is a potential problem with the design and not a one-off pump failure, lives can be in danger.
Jeep Tech (Detroit?) is aware of this and current solution is to keep >1/2 tank of fuel. Problem as I understand it is the auxillary (2nd) fuel tank has a pump that transfers fuel to main tank. It is this auxilliary tank's fuel pump that is defective. Dealer not currently able to order replacement part, told me it is on "galactic backorder". His interpretation is that a new design is underway???. This must be happening to others since my local dealer found out about it through their tech system. The codes generated are red-herrings since they are "downstream" from the primary problem.
Full tank of fuel and car runs like a champ.

Advise: keep tanks full as possible or at least >1/4 minimum, and try running below 1/8-1/4 tank under controlled circumstances to see what happens. No idea if petrol V6 or V8 have similar problems. I expect it is CRD only.
 

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Report it on the NHTSA site. That's a serious situation. If it's a one off or low count failure, nothing will come of it. If it's a widespread problem, you want it documented early on before someone is seriously hurt.

I've had a P0087 code failure situation years ago on my KJ due to a completely different part failure (fuel filter head electrical failure caused a huge fuel leak)

You're right, there is no warning of any kind, no limp mode, the engine just shuts off immediately (no fuel) right while you're driving down the highway. Not what you want to experience.

Glad no harm came of it.
 

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Lifer: Old Geezer
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Report it on the NHTSA site. That's a serious situation. If it's a one off or low count failure, nothing will come of it. If it's a widespread problem, you want it documented early on before someone is seriously hurt.

I've had a P0087 code failure situation years ago on my KJ due to a completely different part failure (fuel filter head electrical failure caused a huge fuel leak)

You're right, there is no warning of any kind, no limp mode, the engine just shuts off immediately (no fuel) right while you're driving down the highway. Not what you want to experience.

Glad no harm came of it.
If the fuel pressure sensor does not detect enough fuel pressure in the injector fuel rail, it WILL immediately shut the engine off. Doesn't matter if due to a failed fuel pump, a busted injector, a big hole in the high pressure fuel circuit, whatever.

That's intentional, as if you spring a big leak in that high pressure circuit, you might barbeque your engine, your vehicle, and yourself.
 

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Correct, low pressure on the fuel rail will cause a shutdown, but you could be just as injured or dead, if it happens right after merging onto a high speed freeway and lose all power in front of an 18 wheeler.

Same technical reason exists on the VW TDI HPFP fuel pump failure - the ECM shuts it down cold when the pump dies (no high pressure in the rail), but the NHTSA investigation still exists due to the safety concern.

It's not about programmed shutdowns, it's about whether a defect exists as a safety issue in enough cases to warrant further action. That's what those investigations are supposed to discover.
 

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It's not about programmed shutdowns, it's about whether a defect exists as a safety issue in enough cases to warrant further action. That's what those investigations are supposed to discover.
^^^This!

Unfortunately our vehicles are very complex machines and are built with little to no redundancy (not even close to a commercial airliner redundancy levels, for example). Many modern vehicles can have catastrophic failures in non-redundant parts that cause a complete shutdown of the power-train. But as Ranger1 noted, it's all about statistics. Failures such as those are expected in a very small group of vehicles, but if the ratio is substantial, it indicates a defect and that's what needs to be resolved.
 

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I've been under 1/8 tank at least twice before filling with no issue either time. Not sure I'll push it that far again until more is known about the problem.
 

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I've been under 1/8 tank at least twice before filling with no issue either time. Not sure I'll push it that far again until more is known about the problem.
Me as well.

Time to keep an eye on things.
 

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I've actually been down to the low fuel light twice without an issue.
 

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I feel very fortunate that I escaped unharmed with only fried nerves.
While obviously no one wants their vehicle to shut off while driving, 99.9%+ of the time it isn't exactly as dire as people believe. Unless the person is an incredible weakling, you can still steer, and the brakes work fine.

People are very dramatic these days..
 

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While obviously no one wants their vehicle to shut off while driving, 99.9%+ of the time it isn't exactly as dire as people believe. Unless the person is an incredible weakling, you can still steer, and the brakes work fine.

People are very dramatic these days..
Yeah, they get real dramatic when it happens to them personally, LOL. Especially right after it happens.

Just how dramatic depends on the traffic around you and what those other drivers are doing when it happens. If it's on open road with no one around, it's not a big deal.

If it happens in rush hour with speeders whipping in and out of your lane to make their exit ramp, it can be nasty. They have no idea why you're suddenly slowing down. Your'e just in their way.

I've had it happen in 5:30 pm beltway traffic on the way home. It's nothing like you described. It happens quickly, with little time to react. The brakes do not work "fine" at all. They are hard as a brick and do not stop well without power assist. At first, it feels like you have lost all of your brakes and steering. Then it just feels like you lost most of it. Steering on a PS car with a dead engine is much harder than driving a car without PS.

Even at 200 lbs, I had to jam on the brake pedal with both feet and use the ebrake to avoid colliding with the car in front of me because so little braking power was available. It's not as good as a vehicle with manual brakes. You tend to remember such events vividly.

What really stands out in this kind of event is that you have no embedded driving skill to handle it. Drivers Ed training doesn't include unscheduled abrupt engine killing at Interstate speeds to learn how to safely recover. There just isn't any proficiency to fall back on. You're learning it live.
 

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Yeah, they get real dramatic when it happens to them personally, LOL. Especially right after it happens.

Just how dramatic depends on the traffic around you and what those other drivers are doing when it happens. If it's on open road with no one around, it's not a big deal.

If it happens in rush hour with speeders whipping in and out of your lane to make their exit ramp, it can be nasty. They have no idea why you're suddenly slowing down. Your'e just in their way.

I've had it happen in 5:30 pm beltway traffic on the way home. It's nothing like you described. It happens quickly, with little time to react. The brakes do not work "fine" at all. They are hard as a brick and do not stop well without power assist. At first, it feels like you have lost all of your brakes and steering. Then it just feels like you lost most of it. Steering on a PS car with a dead engine is much harder than driving a car without PS.

Even at 200 lbs, I had to jam on the brake pedal with both feet and use the ebrake to avoid colliding with the car in front of me because so little braking power was available. It's not as good as a vehicle with manual brakes. You tend to remember such events vividly.

What really stands out in this kind of event is that you have no embedded driving skill to handle it. Drivers Ed training doesn't include unscheduled abrupt engine killing at Interstate speeds to learn how to safely recover. There just isn't any proficiency to fall back on. You're learning it live.
Any skid marks on your briefs? :)
 

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Is this a pump failure or just a bad design of the system, i.e. pump sucking air as fuel sloshing around? If it is a bad pump design then I'd start looking for an aftermarket. Doubt Jeep will fix it correctly anytime soon. This doesn't surprised me at all, every one of my DC vehicles have modified fuel supply systems. The 01 Cummins camevwith a very poor Carter lift pump that would fail if you stared at it too long and the KJ CRD bad fuel filter head design (the 06 Cummins upgraded for extra hp, stock was OK). With two fuel pumps in the WK2 it's just more to go wrong.
 

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Owning a BMW 335 with HPFP problems causing the car to die I understand the problem. I don't understand where the problem is coming from on the JGC however. I do however keep my tank at 1/4 or above because the fuel pump needs cooling and that cooling comes from the fuel itself. Returning fuel should not need a return fuel pump since pressure alone should push it back to the tank. Don't know if that is the case with this Italian diesel however.
I wonder if the fuel pump is getting unported and causing it to suck air them shut down. Could happen very fast.
Standing by for more information...
 

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another chrysler diesel with fuel pump issues? shocking....

This is why I have a FASS 150 Titanium on my '00 Cummins.
Still wondering why there was never a class action on this issue. The poor fuel pump design which would then caused the Bosch VP44 for fail is a 1500.00 repair.

I really hope the aftermarket picks up on the needs of the 3.0VM.
I'd do a def/egr delete (and get better mileage) along with a real fuel pump in a second.


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Pretty sure I have just had this issue on my Jeep - in at the mechanics getting fixed now...

I went on a 600km trip, was about 540kms in (Very flat drive the whole way), and Jeep basically stopped with 2 codes - High and Low Fuel Rail Pressure. About 1/4 to 1/3 on the fuel gauge. (Wasnt full when I left). Got it towed into the town I was visiting, and after being on the tilt tray truck, started fine at the mechanics.! Fuel pressure reading perfectly.

I progressed to fill it back up, and again drove back home from my trip, approx 1/3 to 1/4 left on the gauge (almost exactly the same as the first trip!) and the jeep failed in the exact same way! (Same codes). This time we were stuck for around 14 hours, every 4-5 hours attempted to start it but wouldnt go.

Again, ride on the tilt tray into the mechanics and it starts up again!!

Im pretty convinced its the same issue as this so thanks for posting..! I live is a reasonable hilly area so i assume that in normal driving in my home area I probably do not rely that much on this Aux pump...

Mine is a 2012 WK2 Grand Cherokee Laredo Diesel...
 

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A lot of cars made today use internal fuel pumps that need fuel in the tank to keep it cool and operating properly (long life) but if the fuel tank does not have proper baffling and you run low and go around a fast corner it can starve it and result in early failure. I never go below 1/4 tank on any of my cars except racing where I have a baffled fuel cell in it and it keeps the pump submerged even under 1+ g sustained cornering.
 

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Well known on most all cars these days that if you run the tank below 1/4 the pump can't cool properly and overheats.
I have done this only once and never allow my tank to get that low because this isn't just a diesel JGC issue it happens to all in tank pumps gas or diesel...
 

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Yea... I rarely go below 1/4 also.

This was in between 1/3 and 1/4... now keeping 1/3 of a tank is starting to limit the range quite a lot. We can sometimes go 300kms (190 ish miles) between the nearest fuel stops.

Im still not convinced this was an overheating problem though, as mentioned was stopped for 14 hours, surely would have cooled by then...
 
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