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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
2015 GC 4wd Hemi 20" wheels w/40k miles

It's been a downhill battle since my OEM tires were destroyed at ~30k miles from what I assume was bad toe. Besides a pull to the right on the highway, I'm now chasing a newer issue. I get a vibration or shake in the steering wheel over 60 mph. My tires are newer BFGoodrich Advantage T/A Sport and since day one they've never felt right. I've had alignments, wheels rotated and balanced several times, road force balance, new brake/rotors etc. but nothing helps. Suspension components seem ok at 40k miles.

How much weight is too much? Would they notice a bent rim when balancing the wheels and inform me?

The pics don't show all the weights (some on inside and outside) but seems excessive. Also, they might show a bent rim in pic 2 & 3.

Thanks.

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That seems like a decent amount of weight, but I'm no expert. They might need to turn the tire 180 on the rim for less weight needed.
 

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How did you bend the rims? That would be my first suspect for the vibrations over 60mph. Yes, that is more weight than I have seen on wheel, the big wheels and tires on the WK2 will require more weight to balance, but not that much. I'm not aware of any spec for a limit on how much weight to add to balance the wheel, it just makes sense more weight than typical needed would indicate something is wrong, and the rim is bent as well, they could be related.
 

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2014 Summit 5.7 4wd 20" tires swapped to 18", added all skid plates
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. From your photos I'd say it seems like a lot of weight on that one tire but even so it might not be a problem// but then again it might be.... The slightly bent rim in the other picture I don't think would cause any problem. I got sideswiped years ago and they hit a rear tire and bent the rim quite a bit. While you could easily see the tire wobble the amount you could feel was surprisingly little. I suspect the main problem is the tires are out of spec/defective in some way. If you have a full sized spare you could try rotating it into each tire position (start with the one with all the weight) and see how things change. Suspension issues usually manifest as a "shake" not a vibration so I doubt it's a suspension problem if it's a vibration (hum like feeling). I have had tires that were "properly balanced" but that felt out of balance to me and a different place (the dealer) was able to eliminate all the out of balance feeling. Don't know if he had better equipment or better tire guys but they stayed well balanced for another 15,000 miles.
 

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I'd also check for a bent wheel flange. If you took a hit hard enough to bend the wheel there is a possibility that the flange is bent.
 
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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
How did you bend the rims? That would be my first suspect for the vibrations over 60mph. Yes, that is more weight than I have seen on wheel, the big wheels and tires on the WK2 will require more weight to balance, but not that much. I'm not aware of any spec for a limit on how much weight to add to balance the wheel, it just makes sense more weight than typical needed would indicate something is wrong, and the rim is bent as well, they could be related.
I'm not sure. I just happened to notice that it looked bent. More than 1 rim does look slightly bent on the inside. Of course, one of them in the pic is a rear wheel so it really shouldn't affect my steering wheel.

Would the guys at the wheel shop notice a bent rim while balancing? I assume when they spin the wheels, it would be obvious to the shop and they would say something (which they didn't).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
. From your photos I'd say it seems like a lot of weight on that one tire but even so it might not be a problem// but then again it might be.... The slightly bent rim in the other picture I don't think would cause any problem. I got sideswiped years ago and they hit a rear tire and bent the rim quite a bit. While you could easily see the tire wobble the amount you could feel was surprisingly little. I suspect the main problem is the tires are out of spec/defective in some way. If you have a full sized spare you could try rotating it into each tire position (start with the one with all the weight) and see how things change. Suspension issues usually manifest as a "shake" not a vibration so I doubt it's a suspension problem if it's a vibration (hum like feeling). I have had tires that were "properly balanced" but that felt out of balance to me and a different place (the dealer) was able to eliminate all the out of balance feeling. Don't know if he had better equipment or better tire guys but they stayed well balanced for another 15,000 miles.
I'm really suspect of the tires too. Never felt right since day 1.
 

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Unfortunately the vast majority of tire jockeys are just going to throw the tire on a balancer, spin it and put weights on where the machine tells them to. A couple decades ago when I did work for Goodyear, the joke was that a good balancer can balance an egg by putting weight where they're told but it's still an egg going down the road.

Have the wheel/tire assembly spun on a Hunter Road Force machine. This will put the equivalent of road pressure on the spinning assembly and tell where the out-of-round problem is. In most cases the machine will recommend spinning the tire on the rim from a calculated point A to a point B to balance a tire heavy spot opposite a rim heavy spot. But is some cases the machine will throw up a red flag and say either the rim is too bent or the tire is bad. When I'd mounted my new Toyos 295/45-19 on my new SRT rep wheels at the beginning of this year they spun 2 of the new tires on the rims 3 times before finally giving up and admitting that two of the four new Toyos were out of round. Put the Michelin Pilot Sport AS3's on and almost no weight required and have never had a balance problem since. Technology is wonderful thing.
 
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The usual suspect for vibration on the steering wheel is bad tire balance but from what you said yo had them balanced, re-balanced and even road force balanced.
Hopefully all of that balancing wasn't done by the same shop on the same balancing machine by the same person.
The person doing the balancing should have noticed a bent rim. Maybe maybe not.
You could jack the vehicle up then set up a dial indicator or equivalent and spin the wheel checking for both bent and out of roundness.

After a front to rear tire rotation, if it were that one tire out of balance or defective the vibration should go from the steering wheel to the rear of the vehicle.
If thats not the case then i would start looking at the front suspension or possibly a defective tire.
If these are larger beefier tires than the ones you had before or the same replacement tires with now more rubber on them that could have amplified a suspension issue that was starting to go south already.
A red flag is that you previously had a toe-in issue previously.

Far as the amount of balancing weights, that does seem a bit much.
However i have one tire on my XJ with just about that much balancing weight with no vibrations at all.
 

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That's 3.25 oz of weight. If there's even more on the inside of the wheel, it's way too much especially if these are new-ish tires.
 

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Also If these are Newish tires many manufactures have a Defect Warranty where they will replace the tire/tires if they cannot be balanced with in reason.
 

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Years ago it was said there is a mark on the tire to match up with the valve for better balancing. I'm not sure how true this is, as I have never actually checked.

The tires could also have a bad belt, but the worker could think it just needs more weight to offset it. I've ran 37's well balanced while others have had issues getting theirs balanced.
 

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yes the dots on the tire should line up at the valve stem but now there are two dots one usually red and the other yellow. I think the red get lined up first. All tires should be road forced balanced and when they are balancing they should turn off the " save weight balance" this setting only gets the tire so close to being balanced. Many techs that have the Hunter Road force balance machines are too lazy to do it correctly. @Mightypizu .....The Hunter machine can tell you if its the tire that's out or f the wheel is bent.

My dad is a retired FCA mechanic and he said that the district manager said for car tires if it takes more than 2oz of weight to throw the tire out and get a new one. This was before road force balancing.

Good video that explains how tire should be mounted.



 

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The dots are a good place to start when balancing a tire....line the dots up, ad air then check a on a road force balance....then rotate the tire on the wheel...then recheck and add as little weight as possible.....weights help get the tire balanced....but can also not make it as true as it could be. Those weights are out there pulling a tire into balance can also be throwing a tire out of balance....always balance with the least amount of weight necessary....is better than just balancing with an excessive amount of weight....because over time all those extra weight will throw back out of balance as the tire tread wears down.
 

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Yes it鈥檚 excessive. Probably since you had it balanced several times whoever did that just balanced it with weights from previous balance still on the rim.

The other wheel also looks bent

I was once tired of vibration on the steering wheel in my truck and chasing it. It was getting too expensive, so I bought a gopro and installed it on the suspension facing each wheel at a time. Figured out what it was in 10 minutes.

Now I always start with it when something like this happens. You will see which wheel is it and possibly even which part of it.
 

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You need to go to a another tire guy. You have bent rims. The guy you used has no idea. He either din't notice the rim was bent or didn't know you couldn't fix it with weights or didn't care.
You can get rims straightened but you are better off with new rims.
 

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I see two or three things going on.

  • First, I agree the weight on at least one tire is excessive. Quite excessive.
  • Second, you need to have your bent rims straightened or repaired. Right now they're a wild card that could be causing many of your problems.
  • Third, once the rims are straightened, you need to find a shop with a Hunter spin balancer, have the tires balanced on that machine, AND if any tire seems to need much weight, have the tires moved on the rims as needed to minimize the weight. Wheels and tires can each be imbalanced, and rotating the tires slightly on the rim makes a difference. You may have to pay extra for the added labor.
You can balance a square wood block perfectly when it's spinning, but when it's in contact with the road you can't make it run smoothly.
 
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