[Sevensecondsuv]

Hello all

My wife and I are in the market for a new vehicle for her. I'm historically a Ford guy and currently have several older Ford trucks. We looked hard at Explorer but I'm just not super enthused with the ecoboost setup - the power is nice (especially the 400 hp ST model we test drove) but turbos and direct injection don't figure to be long-term ownership friendly from a maintenance standpoint. That got me looking at the 3-row WL JGC and Dodge Durango since they're the other RWD models available in the Explorer's class. I like that the pentastar with its lack of turbos and port injection is nice and simple (by modern standards anyways). We test drove the Jeep recently and were very impressed and really thinking hard about ordering one here soon. We're looking at either a Laredo with middle bench, sunroof, and tech package (adds heated seats and power lift on the gate) or a Limited with middle bench and panoramic sunroof. Both 2wd.

I have a some questions about the ordering process and the model in general though:
1) What's a good price lately? The market is definitely changing fast and I don't want to pay 2021/early '22 prices. I do know about Koons - I'll email and get their price. The local dealer offered "invoice price" on an order after we got back from the test drive without even sitting down to negotiate. However I'd like to get an idea how much margin there is below invoice for the dealer. I know how the Ford system works, never tried to buy a Chrysler/FCA/Stellantis product before though.

2) The current incentives say you must take delivery by 2/28. When I asked the dealer about how that works with a custom order that won't be delivered for months, he said we could lock in current incentives. Is he full of it?

3) Is the "special $1000 personal offer" on Jeep.com for real? Can it be combined with the generic rebates ($3000 currently on GC Laredo and Limited trims)? What about the $500 conquest cash offer?

4) I've been trying to research the pentastar to find any issues they've had. I see the GC got the "upgraded" version with variable valve lift in 2016. This design uses intake cams with 2 lobes - high and low lift, with the high lift lobe being a slider design. Given modern oils with their low levels of ZDDP, a slider cam sounds like a terrible idea. I have found some evidence of wiped cams in 2018+ Wranglers and Gladiators around the internet and youtube. Ironically, I haven't seen evidence in the GC. Has anyone here had issues with cams or rockers in the '16+ GC?

Thanks all!

 

[Matt_H]

I've had a 2016, 2019, and now 2023 Grand Cherokee all with the Pentastar. Zero issues.

The best bang for the buck balancing features and cost seems to be the limited with Luxury Tech Package.

I'm a fan of the bench seat. @Sarge actually had one with the second row buckets and now with the bench, so has experienced both.

As for locking in, just lock in the price at the time of order with a signed contract and VON. It's on the dealer to honor the price on the contract. Who cares what incentives exist or not, lol.

 

[Sevensecondsuv]

Thanks for the insights. Good to hear no issues with three of the Pentastars. Neither my wife nor I are very into screens or modern electronic doodads in cars, so we're not too interested in the tech packages other than to get the heated seats and power gate on the Laredo.

How has the leather interior in yours held up? My one concern with the leather in the Limited is it doesn't seem as high quality as the leather in Overland or Summit. My experience is that cloth is usually more durable than leather over the long term (10+ years), so that's one reason we're looking at Laredo. Honestly, if they'd let you have the Midnight Sky or Rocky Mountain Pearl paint colors on the Laredo we probably wouldn't be looking at Limited at all. That and the huge dual pane sunroof.

 

[Sarge]

I vastly prefer the bench over the captains chairs in the second row. I rode in the back a fair way home on our road trip to San Diego and back (1100 miles each way), and it's just more comfortable to spread out on the bench (and I have the 'limo package' Summit Reserve with the rear seat Amazon Fire entertainment system, with heated and cooled seats, etc). The seats still slide back and forth and recline like the captain's chairs, so it's like sitting in economy plus and having the whole row to your self.

The only upside I can see to the captains chairs is it allows little kids to crawl back there without moving the seats, and gives the third row prisoners a little greater sense of space. I won't probably have anyone in the third row for more than local trips of an hour or less, but on long trips there will frequently be someone back there (kid and dog, etc) and it's just much nicer to have the bench for comfort. On top of that, you get a totally flat load floor for hauling long things, or car camping in a pinch (we'll put our son in there sometimes).

As for the rest of it, I think cloth and low tech is a good choice for long term, out of warranty, etc, unless there are things you really want that require leather, but I can tell the leather in my SR is higher quality than the Overland I had before, and the Limited is even lower quality (for long term). Personally, I have the top tier, literally every option checked Hemi Summit Reserve, and the Wrangler/Xterra owner in me would rather have nothing more than cloth with heated seats and a heated steering wheel most of the time. But off-road use is a serious part of my consideration, and the Summit Reserve was the only shot I had at getting the eLSD in the rear. As of yet, from the videos I've seen and not having been able to get it to even show 'locked' in 4x4 low "ROCK" mode (viewing the Off Road Pages), I'm not sure what impact it even has.

Unfortunately, Jeep won't sell you a 'Trail Rated' Laredo package, so you have to spend on luxury items in order to have off road items. All that said, coming from a totally loaded $85k Summit Reserve, a Laredo 4x4 with cloth heated seats honestly doesn't sound that bad. And you don't have to feel like you need to treat it like an Armani suit - you can treat it like a backpack and just enjoy the ride.

Horses for courses.

 

[2017]

Even if was just for resale value I’d get a 4x4. Even if all you drive in is rain it’s a benefit and will drive a lot nicer.

 

[Sevensecondsuv]

Even if was just for resale value I’d get a 4x4. Even if all you drive in is rain it’s a benefit and will drive a lot nicer.

I'm not looking at 4wd on this one. I already have a 4wd Excursion, F-350, and F-250. The Jeep will be my wife's ride and kid hauler. It'll never be used off road, never be used to launch a boat, etc. We do get snow here but a dedicated set of snow tires on a different set of wheels, switched in November and April is all that's needed for that. She's current driving a Town Car and never once has that been an issue in winter.

I've run the numbers and I can't even get close to coming out positive on a 4wd. The resale value difference in future dollars is simply never as large as the option cost in present dollars. Add in worse gas mileage from the extra drag due to spinning front CV shafts over the course of ownership and it gets even worse. Then the extra moving parts eventually wear out and need replacing. Finally, the t-case, front driveshaft, front diff, and CV shafts add 200-300 lbs. Less mass is always better for fuel economy and driving dynamics. As another bonus, a 2wd doesn't have those spinning CV shafts interfering with steering feedback.

I realize a 2wd Jeep anything is kind of an oxymoron. However, that's my reasoning for 2wd.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

If you are looking at JGC-L and Durango, know that the latter is on an older platform that came into production in mid-2010 for the 2011 model year. It's the same platform as the previous "WK2" JGC production from MY11-MY21+. Durango, which is certainly a great vehicle, is hanging on by a thread right now because Stellantis hasn't fully decided what to do with it.

I agree with the suggestion to not eschew the 4x4 for a variety of reasons, including resale and wet pavement performance. That's not saying the 4x2 doesn't perform; just that the 4x4 does it better. And with the WL, the smart disconnect lets it run RWD a lot of the time, such as in highway travel where it doesn't sense that the extra footing is required. Further, and this might not affect you on the lower trim levels you are looking at, but 4x4 JGCs tend to have more standard features that cost money to add to 4x2 or are not available.

 

[Sevensecondsuv]

That's an interesting point. Do you know where the 4wd disconnect is on the WL? I've seen various systems over the years - disconnects at the hub (the most basic of which is the old manual locking hub), disconnects at the front diff, and obviously at the t-case. I'm assuming the WL has a disconnect at the front diff - all of the "automatic hublock" systems from pretty much every make and model had reliability problems. A front diff disconnect is of some benefit, but leaves the CV shafts spinning 100% of the time.

 

[Pioneer4x4]

That's an interesting point. Do you know where the 4wd disconnect is on the WL? I've seen various systems over the years - disconnects at the hub (the most basic of which is the old manual locking hub), disconnects at the front diff, and obviously at the t-case. I'm assuming the WL has a disconnect at the front diff - all of the "automatic hublock" systems from pretty much every make and model had reliability problems. A front diff disconnect is of some benefit, but leaves the CV shafts spinning 100% of the time.

I assume it is just at the transfer case, everything still spins, but freewheels with zero load. So it drops from AWD (yeah, yeah 4WD with all open diffs) to RWD only.
I guess, someday, I should actually crawl under and look...

 

[Sarge]

I'm not sure the Laredo 4x4 system does the 'front axle disconnect' thing? I can't find the link now, but I recall reading that the Laredo is AWD and never uncouples the front axle. I could be wrong, but I would look into it if that's a deciding factor.

 

[Sevensecondsuv]

It's not a deciding factor, I'm 100% we're going with 2wd. It's more just intellectual curiosity regarding the design as a mechanical engineer.

 

[Sarge]

It's not a deciding factor, I'm 100% we're going with 2wd. It's more just intellectual curiosity regarding the design as a mechanical engineer.

I recall reading that you can't flat tow a Laredo 4x4 behind an RV for some reason. Only the 'higher' 4x4 systems have provisions for flat towing, and I can't recall if it was in that discussion, or elsewhere, that I read that the base 4x4/AWD system can't disconnect the front axle. But, if you were curious, that's the direction I would search in. If I were you, though, I'd get a Laredo 4x2 with cloth given everything you've said. I would recommend the bench seat, personally, and heated seats (and steering wheel, not sure if that's standard/optional). Anything else... if you don't care about it, save the money (and future repairs)

 

[Sevensecondsuv]

Yes, thanks for the advice. The additional paint options (sure would be nice if they offered more than just different shades of grey and burgundy on the Laredo) and larger sunroof are what has us considering the Limited. At the end of the day it's her ride, so she'll probably be the decision maker as to which trim.

 

[Campfamily]

I recall reading that you can't flat tow a Laredo 4x4 behind an RV for some reason. Only the 'higher' 4x4 systems have provisions for flat towing, and I can't recall if it was in that discussion, or elsewhere, that I read that the base 4x4/AWD system can't disconnect the front axle. But, if you were curious, that's the direction I would search in. If I were you, though, I'd get a Laredo 4x2 with cloth given everything you've said. I would recommend the bench seat, personally, and heated seats (and steering wheel, not sure if that's standard/optional). Anything else... if you don't care about it, save the money (and future repairs)

Assuming things haven't changed significantly from the WK2 setups, the reason that the base 4WD can't be flat towed is because there isn't a neutral setting in the transfer case to disengage both the front and rear axles. A 2WD Jeep GC cannot be flat towed either, because the rear axle cannot be disengaged, therefore the transmission spins when being towed.

Keith

 

[Sevensecondsuv]

Well I just heard back from Koons. They refuse to quote/order 4x2 models as a general policy. So that was a curve ball. Still scratching my head about it. The only thing I'm coming up with is they don't want to be stuck with a 2wd in the event I back out of the order after it's built/delivered.

 

[Sarge]

You may have to take your search far enough south that 2x4 cars are not a sales problem.

 

[Pioneer4x4]

... The only thing I'm coming up with is they don't want to be stuck with a 2wd in the event I back out of the order after it's built/delivered.

Yeah, I can understand that. Maybe with a non-refundable deposit they might. (If you would be willing to commit to something like that)

 

[Jim_in_PA]

Well I just heard back from Koons. They refuse to quote/order 4x2 models as a general policy. So that was a curve ball. Still scratching my head about it. The only thing I'm coming up with is they don't want to be stuck with a 2wd in the event I back out of the order after it's built/delivered.

I'm not surprised. You may need to work with a dealer that's in one of the southern states to be able to get cooperation for a 4x2 order. But you'll likely pay more. IE, a 4x4 from Koons is very likely a bit less money than a 4x2 from some dealer that's willing to order one.

 

[Sevensecondsuv]

Heck - my local dealer told me he'd order a 4x2 no problem, for invoice price, without me even trying to negotiate. I'm beginning to think that's a better deal than I initially suspected.

Koons 6% off would be a roughly $2900ish discount, add their $899 processing fee back in, and I'm right at the $2000 difference in option price for 4wd. Of course I'd still have the time/money expense of going to get it 4 states away.

All that said, I still want the 2wd.

 

[Pioneer4x4]

... Of course I'd still have the awesome road trip when going to get it 4 states away.

All that said, I still want the 2wd.

I fixed it for you!
And I do fully understand why someone would want 4X2, mainly southern people. No (or rarely) bad weather, no need to tow, why pay for transfercase, front differential, and extra weight/potential problems, with no benefit.
If they ever updated the Durango, might be a better choice, but NOPE.