[ccvan767]

What am I missing? This vehicle is said to have QuadraDrive 11 but would come without ELS Differential (not available at this time). How can you have QuadraDrive without ELS Differential? I need this vehicle to handle some hills with heavy snow and I can't get my head around this being a good configuration.

 

[Thunderspud]

Are you using the build tool on the Jeep site? FWIW, the one I just built on there actually forces me to manually remove the ELSD. Even the section labeled "Standard Features" lists it.

View attachment 241848

 

[ccvan767]

Are you using the build tool on the Jeep site? FWIW, the one I just built on there actually forces me to manually remove the ELSD. Even the section labeled "Standard Features" lists it.

View attachment 241849 [AT TACH=full]241848[/ATTACH]

The dealer cannot order with ELS differential (must delete) but I don't think this is a good configuration. Looking for input.

 

[crombenevolant]

The going theory is that there is some kind of supply limitation with the elsd. It is not available for builds and has not been all year. could be the chip shortage, could be some other supply chain problem. Could show up as available next week, or a year from now….

 

[ccvan767]

OK, so it's agreed, Jeep is building vehicles without the elsd. My question still remains, how do you get QuadraDrive WITHOUT elsd and is this configuration as bad as I think it is?

 

[Thunderspud]

It was always my understanding that the presence of the ELSD WAS the main mechanical difference between Quadra Trac II and Quadra Drive II. The transfer case (MP3022) is the same for both systems, as are all the Selec-Terrain settings. Even the 230mm rear axle can be had with Quadra Trac II.

Source for all of this, we have Grand Cherokees with both systems.

That said, I'm with you, if Jeep is putting Quadra Drive II on build sheets for vehicles without the limited slip diff....that does kinda seem like it trivializes those terms a bit.

FWIW, our Laredo X with Quadra Trac II is indistinguishable on snowy forest service roads from the later model Trailhawk with QDII. They both work equally well.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

It's been discussed for some time now...likely parts shortages and doing the eLSD delete means they can actually ship vehicles. If the eLSD is truly important for how you intend to use your new JGC, then consider Trailhawk trim for now.

 

[ccvan767]

It was always my understanding that the presence of the ELSD WAS the main mechanical difference between Quadra Trac II and Quadra Drive II. The transfer case (MP3022) is the same for both systems, as are all the Selec-Terrain settings. Even the 230mm rear axle can be had with Quadra Trac II.

Source for all of this, we have Grand Cherokees with both systems.

That said, I'm with you, if Jeep is putting Quadra Drive II on build sheets for vehicles without the limited slip diff....that does kinda seem like it trivializes those terms a bit.

FWIW, our Laredo X with Quadra Trac II is indistinguishable on snowy forest service roads from the later model Trailhawk with QDII. They both work equally well.

Here's my take. If you have a conventional differential and one wheel has no traction, it spins and all the power is lost to the spinning wheel, you go nowhere. QuadraTrac stops the spinning wheel by engaging the brake, while QuadraDrive stops it with the elsd. I have owned a GC for over 20 years and have had both systems. They are different but both will get you out of a snowbank. What I still don't understand is how a QuadraDrive can work at all without a elsd as a conventional (open) differential will not do the job in my opinion.

 

[rhr]

Yep, this is why I ordered a Trailhawk, had the dealer email me the detailed spec sheet showing ESLD as standard equipment, etc. I communicated clearly during the buy process this specific feature was important so if it were to arrive “deleted” I’d refuse it and ask for my deposit back.

It’s selfish, but part of me is kind of hoping that ELSD winds up getting removed for ‘23+ so that ‘22s with it become unicorns for future resale. I just sold my 2014 S4 for asking price w/ multiple buyers, in part, because it had the “sport differential” option on the build sheet. Enthusiasts heavily index for features like this.

 

[Thunderspud]

Here's my take. If you have a conventional differential and one wheel has no traction, it spins and all the power is lost to the spinning wheel, you go nowhere. QuadraTrac stops the spinning wheel by engaging the brake, while QuadraDrive stops it with the elsd. I have owned a GC for over 20 years and have had both systems. They are different but both will get you out of a snowbank. What I still don't understand is how a QuadraDrive can work at all without a elsd as a conventional (open) differential will not do the job in my opinion.

Yeah, I agree that the ELSD is superior. I understand the basics of how it functions, it just hasn't been an issue for us for driving in snow is all I was attempting to say. I'm sure on rock crawling, or more serious slow speed offroading it would probably be a bit more noticeable. But, since that's not something we bought these specific types of vehicles for, I honestly don't have any experience with that.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

Even with the eLSD, it's only in the rear; the front will still use the brake-based traction control.

 

[f1anatic]

Well, the rear LSD is not always as good as it is claimed to be.

Without the ELSD, as others have mentioned, the BLD (Brake Lock Differential) feature of the ABS will brake/slow down the wheel that is spinning, to match the rotational speed of the other one, on the same axle. But in order to engage this BLD feature on Quadra Trac II, you have to rev the engine higher and induce this speed differential.

The ELSD shifts torque to the other wheel (all of it or partial). The BLD feature is still present, but less likely to engage from a traction control standpoint. The result is less revving and more going without hesitation and brake wear. Conceivably one could cook the brakes if a prolonged condition that requires matching wheel rotational speeds existed. But the issue I have with rear LSDs is that you eventually end up sliding sideways, especially when at an angle. I've experienced sideways slides towards the sidewalk on snowy pavement, when departing from a standstill, many times with the Subaru and I hated it. The rear LSD on the Subaru did not transfer all torque to one side.

 

[DJP2014]

This was discussed a bit at the beginning of April. Go to the following thread and take a look in the area of April 1, 2022. I much prefer having the QuadraDrive II with the eLSD.

WL 2022+ Jeep Grand Cherokee

Regardless of the language used, if there's no rear eLSD, the braking system is used for traction control for all tour wheels. The issue with dealership personnel is a whole 'nuther issue and has been that way at many dealers while not being a factor at others. You apparently got one that...

www.jeepgarage.org

Here's one of the comments I posted when it was asked whether 100% of the torque can be applied to one wheel without the eLSD.

john150 said:
I believe the ELSD can provide 100% torque to just one wheel. Can QTII do that or just to one axle?

On dry pavement I believe QuadraTrac-II can send all the torque to one wheel, but when wheels start slipping and brake traction control kicks in, you will be burning energy in your brake pads and rotors, thus leaving less than 100% torque available to be sent to any one wheel.

Here's the basic idea as I understand it.

QuadraDrive-II (WK2 and WL):
Brake lock differential in front, eLSD in the rear, and a transfer case that can send up to 100% of the torque to the front or rear axle.

If both front wheels are slipping, the transfer case will send 100% of the torque to the rear axle. If one of the rear wheels is slipping, then the eLSD sends up to 100% of the torque on the rear axle to one rear wheel that is not slipping. In this scenario, 100% of the torque can go to one rear wheel.

If both rear wheels are slipping, the transfer case will send 100% of the torque to the front axle. If one of the front wheels is slipping, then the brake lock differential (the brakes) kicks in to slow the front wheel that is slipping in order to transfer torque to the front wheel that is not slipping. This means even though the transfer case sent 100% of the torque to the front axle, if one of the front wheels is slipping, then some torque has to be "burned off" and lost to heat on that slipping wheel, which means less than 100% of the torque is available to the non slipping wheel. In this scenario, less than 100% torque will go to one front wheel.

QuadraTrac-II:
Brake lock differential in the front, brake lock differential in the rear, and a transfer case that can send up to 100% of the torque to the front or rear axle.

If both front wheels are slipping, the transfer case will send 100% of the torque to the rear axle. If one of the rear wheels is slipping, then the brake lock differential (the brakes) kicks in to slow the rear wheel that is slipping in order to transfer torque to the rear wheel that is not slipping. This means even though the transfer case sent 100% of the torque to the rear axle, if one of the rear wheels is slipping, then some torque has to be "burned off" and lost to heat on that slipping wheel, which means less than 100% of the torque is available to the non slipping wheel. In this scenario, less than 100% torque will go to one rear wheel.

If both rear wheels are slipping, the transfer case will send 100% of the torque to the front axle. If one of the front wheels is slipping, then the brake lock differential (the brakes) kicks in to slow the front wheel that is slipping in order to transfer torque to the front wheel that is not slipping. This means even though the transfer case sent 100% of the torque to the front axle, if one of the front wheels is slipping, then some torque has to be "burned off" and lost to heat on that slipping wheel, which means less than 100% of the torque is available to the non slipping wheel. In this scenario, less than 100% torque will to one front wheel.

 

[leadfoot4]

This is a very interesting discussion, and one that is certainly applicable to me, as I was considering the purchase of a 2023 GC. However, since I live in the western NY "snow belt", I find an LSD, either mechanical or electronic, an essential for winter driving. ALL of my cars, since the early-mid 70s, have had an LSD, and I wouldn't think of having a vehicle that I'll drive year round, without one.

If this (no ELSD available) becomes a "constant" in the GC line-up, I may have bought my first and last Jeep.....

 

[2017]

For what’s it’s worth, I ordered a 22 GC L Summit Reserve 4x4 with the 5.7L Hemi on 1/14/22 and just took delivery 2 days ago. It came with the ELSD. It’s on the build sheet.

Talking to the dealer when I picked it up they said the ELSD delete was mandatory now and they can’t even order the Hemi right now.

 

[leadfoot4]

No Hemi, either?

That would REALLY crush my desire to order a new GC, if this turns out to be a permanent situation.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

What am I missing? This vehicle is said to have QuadraDrive 11 but would come without ELS Differential (not available at this time). How can you have QuadraDrive without ELS Differential? I need this vehicle to handle some hills with heavy snow and I can't get my head around this being a good configuration.

If they can't provide the eLSD, then the vehicle will release with QuadraTrac II. It's pretty clear that supply chain is "not fun" right now and removing that feature for the moment lets them continue to deliver vehicles. For folks who truly want/need that feature, there's always the option to select Trailhawk.

 

[AHX_174]

For what its worth - I read this and had a bit of a panic attack because like many of you I bought this Jeep with a desire for Quadra-Drive II (supposedly standard on Summit and Summit Reserve). Here is what I learned. My 2022 Summit's window sticker does not list the "Elec LTD Slip Differential Rr Axle ". However, when I pull up the build sheet it is listed as follows: "Elec LTD Slip Differential Rr Axle ".I also validated my build cost with the configurator assuming an equipped ELSD and it came out as expected.

To double check things -- I found a 2022 summit w/ V8 online that had the ELSD delete. The window sticker specifically says "Electronic Limited–Slip Differential Delete - Conventional Differential Rear Axel" and the build sheet says "Elec LTD Slip Differential Delete"

In short -- the "delete" is specifically called out in the build sheet and the window sticker. Be safe by validating what your build sheet says as the window sticker may not be complete.

 

[JGC_Newbie]

This is a very interesting discussion, and one that is certainly applicable to me, as I was considering the purchase of a 2023 GC. However, since I live in the western NY "snow belt", I find an LSD, either mechanical or electronic, an essential for winter driving. ALL of my cars, since the early-mid 70s, have had an LSD, and I wouldn't think of having a vehicle that I'll drive year round, without one.

If this (no ELSD available) becomes a "constant" in the GC line-up, I may have bought my first and last Jeep.....

I'm in this same boat... looking to buy my very first Jeep. I've done my research and I know exactly what I want. When it was time to have the dealership complete my custom order (just today in fact), they told me that they are required to "delete the ELSD."
Of course, they are trying to spin it... "it's no big deal, it's saving you money and the QuadTrac 2 easily replaces the ELSD -- jeep is being "edgy" and their solution to not having the ELSD is by having the QuadTrac 2!"
I pointed out to them from the spec sheet though, that the ELSD is standard and the Conventional is being forced on me.
It's so frustrating!

I did not place the order -- Summit Reserve with ALL THE PACKAGES.

Oh! They are also unable to add the High Altitude Package. Which was a must for me!!!

So then, I was willing to downgrade to the Overland with ALL the packages, but they were not able to order the Off-Road Group."
I about screamed!!!

I'm trying to spend $65,000+ and can't even get what Jeep offers for sale!

 

[AHX_174]

The sales guy can say what he wants, but it is a big deal. While not a true locker, the ELSD does offer a step up in capability. I personally wouldn’t buy the top model GC without it.

This YouTuber goes in-depth and demonstrates the difference between Quadra Drive 2 (w/ ELSD) and Quadra Trac 2 (no-ELSD). It’s the older WK2 model but they use the same 4x4 systems. I recognize there were probably small tweaks in the WL (I’ve heard the traction control is more sensitive), but this is a good enough approximation.