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Old 09-06-2014, 05:42 AM
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2011 Alpine simple make over

Greetings, Part 1

This was a simple SOUND QUALITY (“SQ”) system to engineer by myself for my complete replacement of the factory Alpine Premium surround system. The hardest part was saving up. Comprises had to take place or some stuff it would have driven me way over the top. Thus, the 2 ½ year wait from the time I purchase the JGC. The install was done during late September into early October of 2013. I am still paying off the sound system. So, no questions regarding how much did this put me into the hole ($,$$$.$$). But, yes, it is well worth it. Would I do it again? Oh Yes.

The following link is to the complete set of photographs in two (2) tabs that I have taken during this process.

Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum - 1stJeepGC's Album: Pictures of the Sound System


Speakers:

For the subwoofer, I need the rear cargo area free for as much room as possible. A custom box as much as I wanted one, was now at out of the question. So, like most of us, the JL Audio Stealthbox.

For this build, I focused on a SQ to take advantage of the 7.1 surround sound system. As those have followed my posted over the years and now, as alterative to name branded speakers, I suggested looking at parts-express.com or madisound.com. Many of those speaker drivers are shown there are manufactured by companies who are the main supplies to a majority of the speaker companies for mobile and home audio. I had my final choices now down to drivers from Scanspeak and Seas.

After consulting a colleague of mine (more on him later) in the mobile audio business, he suggested to look into Hybrid Audio Technologies (“HAT”) for the speakers. They have an excellent reputation in for SQ speakers and especially how they deal with the off-axis problems in car acoustics. We are still not sure who makes the speakers for them, but this is what I used. NOTE: For the rear door I did not want something heavy in midbass punch. I wanted the rear door to give me some midrange fill-in.


Subwoofer: JL Audio Stealthbox powered by Pioneer Stage 4 PRS-1200M mono amp
600 RMS at 2 ohms. The gains are cut back in order to prevent blowing up
the speaker

Front Door Speakers: HAT L6SE to replace the 6x9
HAT L1 Pro R2 to replace the tweeter (these are the only tweeters I use)
Powered by Pioneer Stage 4 PRS-D4200F 4 channel amp x 75 RMS

Center Speaker: HAT L3SE wide band full range Powered by JL Audio XD 600/6 x 75 RMS

Rear Door Speaker: HAT L3V2 wide band full range Powered by JL Audio XD 600/6

Rear Pillar Speaker: HAT L3SE wide band full range Powered by JL Audio XD 600/6

Stage VI - Legatia SE - The Home of the World's Finest Loudspeakers, and World Championship Car Audio Speaker Systems.

Stage V - Legatia - The Home of the World's Finest Loudspeakers, and World Championship Car Audio Speaker Systems.

The ring radiator tweeter L1 Pro R2


The L6SE for the front door


The L3V2 for the rear door


The sub



AMPS:

After going over the electrical within my model of the JGC it was a no brainer that I had to go with Class D amps. As much as I wanted to go with Class AB amps, they would draw to much power for the setup I wanted. In addition, I would have had the alternator replaced with a custom one to handle the load. Today, the Class D amps are just as efficient, low distortion and clean signal paths compared with the AB type amps. Plus the fact they draw far less power.

The Pioneer Amps were a good choice for me. I got these from a close out with the Big Box store 6 Ave Electronics that went under back in 2011. You can easily spend over $1k for Class AB or D amps. With 2 amps now, I need one more to power the rest of the speakers and that’s why I am running 3 amps. You can also use a 5 channel instead of what I did with the Pioneer’s. The other advantage of running a separate bass amp gives you more headroom to work without over taxing the power supply. This technique is very common in pro audio, as well as, for car audio SPL systems. The JL Audio I picked up at time of the install this past Fall of 2013. The JL Audio XD series is an excellent amp for the price point and now JL Audio has improved the line with Version 2 for the XD.

The factory Alpine amp was disconnected and removed altogether from the JGC. To date, I have had the JGC over to the dealer for maintaence and reprogram the FOB key. No problems were report and for the last 6 months or so, I have not had any problems.

PRS-D4200F - Stage 4 PRS Series 4-Channel Full-Range Class FD Amplifier with ICE Power Technology | Pioneer Electronics USA

PRS-D1200M - Stage 4 PRS Series Class D Mono Amplifier with 1,200 Max. Power | Pioneer Electronics USA

XD600/6 - Car Audio - Amplifiers - XD - JL Audio


The amps


see part 2 next

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  #2  
Old 09-06-2014, 05:44 AM
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Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Greetings, Part 2


Headunit:

I had the 430 without navi as part of my factory system. I choose to go with the Pioneer SPH-DA210 AppRadio 3 for now. The current crop of headunits did not meet my needs. I wanted to have my navigation thru the smartphone apps. Right now, I am sticking with IGO Primo (the new SYGIC for IOS is still not appradio compliant, but I run in HDMI mode). When an update occurs, I get an updated in the software with new functions, corrected functions and of course map updates. I could have used an iPad or another tablet; however, I do not want to lug around that particular device.

For the wire harness, my installer went with PAC C2R-CHY4 and the SWI-RC, otherwise you can use the PAC all in one RP4-CH11. Today, you have IDatalink, Metraonline, and Cruz just to name a few harnesses that will work the 2011-2013 JGC. The 2014+ is currently in development for the 8.4 systems. The 8.4 has the Uconnect built into the headunit and that is current hold up on how to deal with it.

I still I cannot understand why in this day in age, the aftermarket manufactures cannot implement navi software changes into the headunits. Garmin has a platform and so does IGO Primo to allow this to take place. BTW, in some of the Chevy’s headunits, the do use a smartphone technology integrated into the navigation using the BringGO USA app. LandRover gives you the option to use your smartphone for navigation via the app SYGIC. Shortly, will finally see OEM integration with the smartphone with both platforms from Apple’s CarPlay and Andriod.

In terms of headunits today, I still think Kenwood Excelon line is the way to go, followed by Alpine. From what I have read about Pioneer’s NEX units, some them are still a little buggy at the moment as with any first generation product.

As I said previously, I am using the AppRadio 3 for now until a better solution comes out and a better audio quality. The 3rd generation of the AppRadio does have a pretty good sound quality to it. So for now, the headunit for all intensive purposes is still my missing item for a better sound quality system. I am going wait until the 2015 HU models are out and see from there. Otherwise, I might do a iPad.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...o+3+(SPH-DA210)

The AppRadio 3




see part 3 next
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  #3  
Old 09-06-2014, 05:46 AM
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Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Greetings, Part 3


Digital Sound Processing (“DSP”):

This is the key to a SQ surround sound system.

As many of us who have the Alpine Premium system, here at JeepGarage.org there is a split between who loves it and who hates it. Remember, everybody perceives sound, music and vocals different from the next person. Therefore, I obviously fall into the category of hating the OEM system. From my days of home theater audio, I always like the way JBL’s Logic 7 surround sound matrix for music sounded. I have listen to Logic 7 in my friends MB and got used to proper OEM surround system should sound. My other requirement besides surround sound was to have all the speakers run on a electronic (active) crossover.

For the DSP I am using the JBL MS-8 for the Logic 7 surround sound and the electronic crossover. The MS-8 automatically calibrates everything when instructed after you input the settings and crossover points. You might have to try a few times to get hit the right mark. They also give you a general overall 31 band graphic Eq to help fine tune. There are no provisions to tune individual channels at all. In addition, it cannot process a full 7.1 active system. The use of a passive crossover is needed for the front door or in the rear. At as standalone DSP unit, I think it is very good.

As I motioned before, the MS-8 has 2 negative features in the tuning and xover. To solve this, I added a 2nd DSP unit, the Rockford Fosgate 3.sixty.3. I now have individual control for each channel in terms of equalizing with a graphic or parametric eq and further time delay adjustments. Also, I have the use of 4 different filter types in the electronic crossover. There are other DSP’s out there which is better to use than the 3.sixty.3, but for my budget it works. It is better to have a faster processor; however, you will be paying over $900.00 and over 1k. IMO, the Audision Bit One and the 3.sixty.3 are the same, except the 3.sixty.3 is cheaper.

From the output stage of the MS-8 into the input stage of the 3.sixty.3

MS-8 Output Channels 1 & 2: Is a full range signal for the front door L6SE midbass/midrange driver & L1 Pro R2 Tweeter. Once in the 3.sixty.3, it is split into separate L & R channels for each driver.

MS-8 Output Channels 3 & 4: Is a high frequency signal for the rear door L3V2 wide band full range driver xover at 300hz at a 24db slope going directly into the JL Audio 600/6 amp. I am fully satisfied how the MS-8 configured those settings. No other eq or anything needs to be done.

MS-8 Output Channels 5 & 6: Is a full range signal for the rear pillar L3SE wide band full range driver.

MS-8 Output Channel 7: Is a full range signal for the center L3SE driver

MS-8 Output Channel 8: Is a low frequency signal for the Jl Audio Stealthbox xover at 80hz at a 24db slope. Inside the 3.sixty.3 I then have it setup in the crossover section as band-pass from 20 – 80 hz. This way I found the signal to better than the pass-thru. If I applied it as low frequency crossover in the 3.sixty.3, it would conflict with MS-8 output and does sound bad.

All interfacing with the 3.sixty.3 is done via a PC and the provided software. It is important to get the latest release from Rockford prior to starting the configuration process. On the website is a link to a video presentation on YouTube how to use the software.

From the Output stage of the RF 3.sixty.3 to the Amps:

Channels 1 & 2: The front door L6SE midbass/midrange driver xover using a band-pass Linkwitz filter from 80-6000 hz at a 24db slope into the Pioneer 4 Channel amp. I had the 3.sixty.3 invert the signal (setting) and the effect gave it more dynamics.

Channels 3 & 4: The front door L1 Pro R2 tweeter xover using a high pass Butterworth filter from 5200 Hz at a12db slope into the Pioneer 4 Channel amp.

Channels 5 & 6: The rear pillar L3SE xover using a band-pass Butterworth filter from 300-15,000 hz at 36db slope into the JL Audio 600/6 amp

Channel 7: The front door L6SE xover using a band-pass Linkwitz filter from 450-10,000 Hz at 24db slope into the JL Audio 600/6 amp.

Channel 8: The subwoofer xover using a band-pass Linkwitz filter from 20-80 Hz at 24db slope into the Pioneer mono amp.

With HAT speakers, very little eq had to be used for the rear, just front and the center to get to my sweet spot. After, I did the initial tuning after the speakers broke-in which took about 20+ hours of play. I have play with tuning now and then to improve it.

MS-8 | Car Audio DSP, Powered Digital Sound Processor | JBL US

3SIXTY Digital Processors - 3SIXTY.3 - Rockford Fosgate®

The DSP's



see part 4 next
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  #4  
Old 09-06-2014, 05:48 AM
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Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Greetings, Part 4


The Install:

To begin with, this was not a do it yourself install by me, the colleague that I mentioned prior in the speakers section was the one who did the install for me. Exotic Auto Boutique located in Brooklyn, New York at 156 Third Avenue (www.exoticautoboutique.com”), 718.625.4742. They also have a facebook page.https://www.facebook.com/EAB156 I have known the owner, Frank R, for over 25 years now. He played the devils advocate for me on the final design build. I left all the install portion to him and his crew to do my dirty work. I am to busy, to old and do not want to tool up for car audio.

Equipment Location:

I did not want to use the area under the front seats for one simple reason; I did not want any possible water making its way to the equipment, especially salt during the winter months. With all of my equipment, under the rear seat was not a good choice either. Not enough height clearance. And the spare tire cargo area was a no go for me. The 2 DSP Units and the 3 Amps were install on the back of rear seat. The DSP are on the right fold-down side, while the amps are located on the left fold-down side. They are covered by a matching top custom built for me by Exotic. The bottom allows air in and the top lets the heat out.

The cargo area, the spare tire and all the panels were removed from the back area in order to run the all the cabling to the equipment. That big silver tube is not a Bazooka Bass unit, but the nitrogen supply tank for the Quadra Lift (QL) suspension.




Power:

The AppRadio 3 headunit and wire harness power comes from the OEM exiting connections. The rest of the gear is powered off the JGC battery. That connection is from the battery booster points under the hood. This way, the battery can be replaced or if a technician has to work on something, they have easy access. At the booster points, I have a relay switch that allows to shut off the power connection to the equipment. Because I am running 3 amps, they used #0ga power cable directly to a secondary battery, Stinger SPP 680, dedicated to maintain the load and no drop outs in voltage even through I am using Class D power amps. In addition, I have a surge protection connect to the Stinger, PAC 200 amp. This is more effective than using capacitors.

Pac-Audio.com Product Details | iPod Integration for your car and More by Pac-Audio - Connecting you to the future

Stinger Electronics | Product Details

The front relay and power connections for the AMPS and DSPS



The battery and the PAC 200 with the rear relay




Audio Interconnects and Speaker Wires:

For the interconnects, we used the JL Audio ECS premium audio cables. The subwoofer speaker cable is 12-gauge wire. For the rest of the speaker wires, we taped into the OEM wiring. The OEM wiring has to be extremely good. This is the only thing that was done right in the factory system.


Speaker Installation:

The JL Audio Stealthbox went in as predicated, easy. The HAT L3SE center speaker dropped into place without any problems. For HAT L6SE midbass/midrange speaker a MDF mounting ring was made and fasten onto the dynaomat pad that lined the area from 6x9 enclosure. The same procedure was used for the rear door for the HAT L3V2 speaker. The tweeter had to be modify by trimming the ring in order to get into the OEM enclosure. We put a black speaker cloth as the finishing component. The rear pillar was wedge in with the dynaomat around the metal part of the speaker. Some good old reliable hot glue keeps in place.


Front Tweeter




Rear Pillar




The cover for the equipment


And this, my fellow jeepgarage.org members is my madness.

Best for now.
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  #5  
Old 09-06-2014, 10:12 AM
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Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Wow, awesome post(s) and amazing install!
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Old 09-06-2014, 10:45 AM
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Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Awesome write up with pics not so simple system but well thought out very good


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  #7  
Old 09-06-2014, 01:12 PM
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Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Quote:
Originally Posted by akajj3 View Post
Awesome write up with pics not so simple system but well thought out very good


2014 GC SRT bright white
speedlogix white catch can, RAX bronze jailbreak, front tint, resonator delete, adams polishes Instagram jepprey33
Greetings,

I beg to differ. It was a simple system. I also gave the install team the wiring map to hook this up and they did the rest.

In reality, most shops would not even think about this design or tell you it would never work. Since I have many years in audio in different areas, this is result of my experience. The use of 2 DSP units was mostly from my experience in the pro world.

Thank you for your reply and enjoy your JGC.

Best for now.
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  #8  
Old 09-06-2014, 01:13 PM
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Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Quote:
Originally Posted by seeingwhite View Post
Wow, awesome post(s) and amazing install!
Greetings,

Even the IOS Masters approved.

Best for now.
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Old 09-07-2014, 01:54 AM
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Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stJeepGC View Post
Greetings,

Even the IOS Masters approved.
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Old 09-08-2014, 03:31 AM
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Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

But how does it sound? Awesome writeup!

Btw, i know everyone perceives sound different. But we should all try to achieve a flat response and let the producers decide how we should hear a track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stJeepGC View Post
Greetings, Part 4


The Install:

To begin with, this was not a do it yourself install by me, the colleague that I mentioned prior in the speakers section was the one who did the install for me. Exotic Auto Boutique located in Brooklyn, New York at 156 Third Avenue (www.exoticautoboutique.com”), 718.625.4742. They also have a facebook page.https://www.facebook.com/EAB156 I have known the owner, Frank R, for over 25 years now. He played the devils advocate for me on the final design build. I left all the install portion to him and his crew to do my dirty work. I am to busy, to old and do not want to tool up for car audio.

Equipment Location:

I did not want to use the area under the front seats for one simple reason; I did not want any possible water making its way to the equipment, especially salt during the winter months. With all of my equipment, under the rear seat was not a good choice either. Not enough height clearance. And the spare tire cargo area was a no go for me. The 2 DSP Units and the 3 Amps were install on the back of rear seat. The DSP are on the right fold-down side, while the amps are located on the left fold-down side. They are covered by a matching top custom built for me by Exotic. The bottom allows air in and the top lets the heat out.

The cargo area, the spare tire and all the panels were removed from the back area in order to run the all the cabling to the equipment. That big silver tube is not a Bazooka Bass unit, but the nitrogen supply tank for the Quadra Lift (QL) suspension.




Power:

The AppRadio 3 headunit and wire harness power comes from the OEM exiting connections. The rest of the gear is powered off the JGC battery. That connection is from the battery booster points under the hood. This way, the battery can be replaced or if a technician has to work on something, they have easy access. At the booster points, I have a relay switch that allows to shut off the power connection to the equipment. Because I am running 3 amps, they used #0ga power cable directly to a secondary battery, Stinger SPP 680, dedicated to maintain the load and no drop outs in voltage even through I am using Class D power amps. In addition, I have a surge protection connect to the Stinger, PAC 200 amp. This is more effective than using capacitors.

Pac-Audio.com Product Details | iPod Integration for your car and More by Pac-Audio - Connecting you to the future

Stinger Electronics | Product Details

The front relay and power connections for the AMPS and DSPS



The battery and the PAC 200 with the rear relay




Audio Interconnects and Speaker Wires:

For the interconnects, we used the JL Audio ECS premium audio cables. The subwoofer speaker cable is 12-gauge wire. For the rest of the speaker wires, we taped into the OEM wiring. The OEM wiring has to be extremely good. This is the only thing that was done right in the factory system.


Speaker Installation:

The JL Audio Stealthbox went in as predicated, easy. The HAT L3SE center speaker dropped into place without any problems. For HAT L6SE midbass/midrange speaker a MDF mounting ring was made and fasten onto the dynaomat pad that lined the area from 6x9 enclosure. The same procedure was used for the rear door for the HAT L3V2 speaker. The tweeter had to be modify by trimming the ring in order to get into the OEM enclosure. We put a black speaker cloth as the finishing component. The rear pillar was wedge in with the dynaomat around the metal part of the speaker. Some good old reliable hot glue keeps in place.


Front Tweeter




Rear Pillar




The cover for the equipment


And this, my fellow jeepgarage.org members is my madness.

Best for now.
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Old 09-08-2014, 07:34 AM
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Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Awesome write up, my man. You definitely take the Oscar for Best JC Audio System. I would absolutely love to hear it.

I'm keen to do something similar but not *that* keen. Looks like Hard work and perseverance paid off.
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Old 09-08-2014, 08:17 AM
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Re: 2011 Alpine simple make over

Quote:
Originally Posted by frydryce View Post
But how does it sound? Awesome writeup!

Btw, i know everyone perceives sound different. But we should all try to achieve a flat response and let the producers decide how we should hear a track.
Greetings,

Everybody that has heard through the various stages from building, break-in and various tuning stages are amazed how clear it is. The system itself does get loud but not on a level of an SPL based system. This is what I wanted and to make sure I do not get that so called ear bleed effect.

With regards to flat response, that is a very good point. In fact, in home audio both HT and traditional is what I stress. With the correct speakers, you should not have to be on the eq at all or eq-ing the hell out of it.

The problem with car audio is to tame the off-axis response. With Hybrid Audio Technology Speakers that I used, I did not have to play with the eq at all for the midrange. Mostly it was to tame the bass and mid-bass frequencies. The hi's I did bring up a little. For certain music I will establish some presents down the road.

Best for now.
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http://www.jeepgarage.org/f155/2011-...ver-79121.html
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