Who leaves a car in N intentionally at the top of the hill to then walk behind it? Nobody....

 

Unless the driver thought he was in P when he was really in N.

 

that's not intentionally being in N...

 

Interesting ad, while looking at Jeep death scene photos...

 

Sad loss, was the park brake applied, people are too lazy to apply the park/emergency brake and rely too much on the transmission

 

Yes, very sad, but very preventable. I'm sure lawyers will try and blame a vehicle malfunction, but it's clearly the driver's fault. If you exit a running vehicle, especially on a steep hill, the FIRST thing you do it set the e-brake, and then put the vehicle in Park.

 

they only say in N and rolled backwards down hill so basically no parking brake applied which makes no sense anyway just put it in P...whatever

 

Since the GC ZF (FCA) shifter debate (ZF because they designed it), emerged a number of months ago and with all that went with that, I've always wanted to ask this question from the US members of this site and Milous with his post just now, has just made me want to ask it even more. (I may offend some members because it goes to the heart of how you learnt to drive).

My question is - Why is the Park Brake considered an Emergency brake (e-brake) and where did this concept come from?

How did a 'Park Brake' become an 'E (emergency) Brake' in the US? What even is an E-brake?

There is nowhere in any vehicle operators manual that I have owned, be that Holden, Subaru, Ford, Mazda or Jeep (both Austrian and US built), that the park brake is referred to as an Emergency Brake.

It is the Park Brake.

When you start going for your drivers licence in New Zealand or Australia, the Park Brake and what it is used for is hammered into you from the get-go. It is a natural reaction to probably 99.9% of all drivers down-under to apply the park brake when the vehicle is stopped and placed in P.

It is reiterated throughout all manufacturers operators manuals.

How did owners of vehicles driving in the US change this concept and more to point why? And Milous, I'm not having a go at you, but your very reference to it being an e-brake, tells me that the problem is well entrenched.

Putting a vehicle in Park and activating the Park brake is not an emergency situation. It's just what you do. It should never be referred to as an e-brake because it isn't.

It's the Park Brake. It doesn't matter whether you're on the flat or not - put the vehicle into Park and pull it with your hand, push it with your foot, or flick it up with your finger (my KL with it's electronic park brake) but put your park brake on. It's not an emergency - it's just parking.

 

... And Milous, I'm not having a go at you, but your very reference to it being an e-brake, tells me that the problem is well entrenched.

"e-brake" is also a term used for "electronic brake", as many vehicles now are moving away from the foot or hand parking brakes.

There have been a numbers of posts over the years discussing the use of the "e-brake" or "Parking Brake". I am always surprised at how many people do NOT use it (!!). For myself it's been a lifetime habit, I use the brake every single time I park, hill or no hill, without even thinking about it.

As far as calling it an "emergency brake", is really is that too, and very important that drivers realize this as well. It always cracks me up when watching a movie scene where a car is barreling down a mountain and the driver presses the brake pedal and the pedal goes to the floor - the driver makes no attempt to apply the e-brake/Park brake whatsoever, even though initially the vehicle is not going all that fast.

 

Guy like him must be WK2, damn, that's must be somehow one of the dumbest way to suicide

 

It just appears to me that US folk (not all but many) only see the park brake as something to use in an emergency rather than something that should be used every single time they drive the vehicle. And then of course, when it all turns to cactus, the manufacturer is somehow at fault. It's wrong.

 

I know this reply is not representative of all but growing up in Chicago where the land is very flat for miles & miles most people I know drive automatics & never use the E-Brake. There is simply no need. I could be wrong since its been many years butI think in my Drivers Ed Class ( class taken before getting first license) I only remember being taught to use it on hills.

People can argue all they want but human nature is what it is, if you do not design a product to be intuitive at some point something will go wrong. This happens all the time and its always balance of what is acceptable.


From Japopnik http://jalopnik.com/did-jeeps-recalled-gear-shifter-contribute-to-the-death-1782255715

 

It is always wise to use both gear lock (park gear) and park brake. This did not occur in my previous car (manual gearbox) when someone borrowed it. They left it in neutral with the park brake only lightly applied. The car uses the rear disc pads (rather than seperate internal drum handbrake) for the park brake. After some time the disc brakes cooled and the car began then to roll away. Luckily it only rolled in a straight line a short distance. The neighbor came over to ask whose car was in front of her drivway.

 

It was a 2015

Anton Yelchin was killed by his own vehicle, police say - CBS News

 

...and if a dealer sold this to him after 4/27/16 during the active NHTSA Stop Sale order....yikes for the dealer and FCA....

 

By the way. I'm not saying FCA is at fault. If the dude had a driveway with a big incline, he should have thrown his parking brake on (though in N, that might not have helped).

BUT, there are going to be so many "FCA RECALLED THIS VEHICLE" articles, that it's bad news for Chrysler.

 

I always use my emergency/parking brake and I live in the midwest. Back in the day when cars weighed close to 3 ton's, having the entire weight of the car being supported by a small, cheap metal parking pawl inside the tranny is not a very smart idea.

As for the shifter issue, I find this action not intuitive: Driving the wife's GC, I pulled back to get it into sport mod. Now my motor skills and feeble brain thinks that if I choose to return to the previous setting, that a should put the shifter back to it's previous location...1) stationary 2) drop down for sport mode 3) push back up for previous state...nope..on the GC that puts me in Neutral...need to pull back again. This is not my Daily Driver so I am still learning the ropes on this. I love the GC, but this shifter is not a favorite of mine

 

I have a hunch that a private surveillance camera will have filmed this tragic event and will answer all of our questions. Looking at the provided news photo, it appears that the driveway is slanted towards the house/garage. The news account indicated that the vehicle was in neutral, that would mean the vehicle was running at the time, since you can not shutoff the engine when in neutral. It will be interesting to see what the outcome of the investigation.

 

its generational.
boomers or anyone that had driven a stick knows about parking brakes.

its something less than 5% of sales now and shrinking.

I would bet you take a drivers test today without ever using the P brake.

And I know its also a E Brake.........I had a 66 Coupe De Ville in 1977 driving to school and pedal went to floor. that car had a auto unlock of parking brake when car was in drive, so I was able to actually PUMP the e/p brake and get myself slowed down enough to hit the shoulder and there was a big hedge I used to come to a stop without any injury and little to no damage. if you have the locking handle you need to keep that button engaged and pump the handle.

 

Spoke to my service adviser in regards to this open recall. 3 hours he says to properly download/upload new software. Anyways taking it in tomorrow. I've never had an issue with this but can see how others can get confused with the shifter. Especially if they are in a rush.


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Spoke to my service adviser in regards to this open recall. 3 hours he says to properly download/upload new software. Anyways taking it in tomorrow. I've never had an issue with this but can see how others can get confused with the shifter. Especially if they are in a rush.

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Agree i dont generally have an issue with the shifter other then it being ackward in a panic situation but i acknowledge the incidence of people generally having issues with this shifter style is higher for whatever reason.

So he did validate the software is in the system and ready for load correct?

 

I just don't understand this shit sometimes. How do you not know your car is in neutral? And if your car is moving when you get out of it shouldn't that be a clue?

 

I thought the same, but as someone in one of the other treads suggested, maybe hill start assist had held the car for a few seconds as he got out.

It's sad, but his park brake should have been applied on a hill like that, you can't rely on the transmission to hold the car.

 

Yay more bad press..

if you idiot proof everything the world will make a better idiot. :slapfight:

I always Apply the Parking brake then Park it takes the strain of the parking paw.

Ever park up hill and put your car into reverse and hear a loud clunk? Bingo.

User fault not owners.. Sad but his lack of judgement.

Must be Jeep owners BMW and Others have same shifter No recalls or Hearing about people being ran over must be a smarter crowd..

I believe ZF designed the shifter correct? why not push blame to them for providing it to us..

 

Exactly so theoretically if the jeep was in neutral, it should have immediately begun rolling backward on release of the brake.

That should have been enough of a cue that the vehicle wasn't in park. Sounds like user error but jeep is already taking the hit for this in the media.


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not defending the time but they r doing 4 flashes and they usually get .5 hr ish per flash from FCA so that's about right....

 

1. Hardly anyone uses the park brake 100% of the time even on hills. Come on now guys you can't expect someone to do that every time they park on any kind of incline/decline.
2. There has been at least 4-5 times in the 8 months I've owned my 2015 that I've thought I was in one gear but I was actually in another. I'm not stupid, lazy, careless, etc. It's simply a poorly designed shifter and something like this was bound to happen.
3. I repeat, you don't have to be an idiot to shift this car into the wrong gear. It's a bad design.

 

... Come on now guys you can't expect someone to do that every time they park on any kind of incline/decline.

Smarter, more experienced drivers will do this 100% of the time, no exceptions.

 

This Jeep has an electronic shifter so the consumer doesn’t physically put the car in park. They move the shifter to “P” which sends a command to the computer to put the car in park. On occasion, the car isn’t reciprocating. It’s a programming issue.

 

No it's an idiot issue!


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Ill say it again,

If you idiot proof everything, the world will create a better idiot.

 

Poor guy, this is a tragedy and because of his actor status, it will be big news for some time. He could fly a USS Enterprise NCC-1701, he just couldn't park a Grand Cherokee.

It is always a good habit to stop, apply park brake, shift briefly to N to make sure the park brake holds, then put it in P. I live in the flat lands south of San Francisco and still do this every time, in my slightly sloped driveway, and everywhere. Build in that muscle memory, for no matter where I am.

I liked this actor, he played a good Pavel Chekov. It is a tragic loss of life.

 

Poor guy, this is a tragedy and because of his actor status, it will be big news for some time. He could fly a USS Enterprise NCC-1701, he just couldn't park a Grand Cherokee.

It is always a good habit to stop, apply park brake, shift briefly to N to make sure the park brake holds, then put it in P. I live in the flat lands south of San Francisco and still do this every time, in my slightly sloped driveway, and everywhere. Build in that muscle memory, for no matter where I am.

I liked this actor, he played a good Pavel Chekov. It is a tragic loss of life.

Makes you wonder if electric cars of the future will cause more pedestrian fatalities with how quiet they are in motion.

 

So heres what the dealers will be doing: http://www.wk2jeeps.com/tsb/rc_S2716.pdf

New software must be installed which includes an “Auto Park” feature which eliminates the possibility of the driver inadvertently failing to place the transmission into “PARK” prior to exiting the vehicle.

Sounds like they will force it into park when you open the door. What about other doors? Will it only do it when you are under 1mph? What if Im doing 20mph through the neighborhood and realize my seat belt is stuck in the door and I need to open it real quick? Hopefully someone gets some clarification from the dealer on exactly how it will work

They make it sound like we dont need to shift to park anymore. Just come to a stop and get out...