Forgot to mention that all other warnings including battery light never lit, and from previous experiences when alternators have gone, the battery indicator illuminates brighter with engine revs, but I won't dismiss alternator just yet either 👍

 

When ever i brag on how well one of my vehicles are running it never fails, shortly after a problem arises.

A disclaimer, i have no zero experience with diesel engines so what is a 'diesel indicator flash back'?
That being said a shot battery can pull down the charging voltage or as you said the charging system might not be up to par.

Based on this:
"....Battery was put on charge- if 6 is flat, it was reading 4. Had it on charge for 12 hrs so far, and it hasn't moved from 3 for the last 8 hours. Voltmeter indicates 12.9 volts and no green light on its health indicator, indicating potential battery fail.....
I'd guess the battery is toast but you need to measure the alternator's charging voltage first before pitching the battery.
If the charging voltage with engine running at the battery posts not its connectors is somewhere between 13.8 and 14.7 volts DC then in all likely hood the battery is toast refusing to take a charge.
Don't know about the UK but here most auto part stores will load test a battery for free.

Moisture on the outside of a connector shouldn't be a problem unless it gets inside the connector contact pins causing corrosion.

 

Thank you for the heads up mate on alternator checking. That's the only thing I've got to check but weather been crap here all day, so I might get the chance to pop battery back in tomorrow to check it 👍.

Main concern I had was for water getting into electricals after popping hood, but its had 36 hours to dry out and a bit of a relief with what you say, as I wiped it dry when I noticed it.

I got the battery back in Dec 2017 as an Xmas prezzie. Luckily I have proof of purchase and it had a 5 year guarantee, so the shop will test and replace if its shot as it still has 10 months on it. However, during my research yesterday, I didn't realise batteries don't last past 3-5 years or so if you're lucky, so always get that long guarantee if possible.

The diesel engine in mine is a 5 cylinder with the glow plugs drawing 125 amps, equating to 625 cold crank amps needed for it to start, so I think it's done pretty good considering 😀.

The diesel indicator flash back I'm unsure of, so I'll read up on it tomorrow and see if that's anything I've experienced with mine.

Hopefully, I can get battery swapped tomorrow though and all is sweet. If not, then this post might end up being longer than anticipated. In the future though, I'm making sure there's some wood around to touch for the next time I tell someone how good the Jeep is behaving 🤣.

On another note- when I've had batteries bugger up in the past, it's usually cold morning start ups. This may be the first time I've had one go while driving, and that check gauge light I noticed was occasionally relighting then turning off after the engine was fired up a few weeks ago. If it is the battery or alternator and it alerted me in the fashion it has, then it gets my thumbs up for picking it up and preventing further damage.

 

No luck today for doing anything to the jeep- now we have storm Franklin after storm Eunice. I can't understand why they just don't just say 'a week of storms' and be done with it, instead of naming them between these little breaks of a few hours that gives us home mechanics some hope that we can get out there and do stuff.
(Must be some kind of meteorological competition to see what letter of the alphabet they can get to?
Anyways, its traditional for us Brits to moan about the weather, so with that out of the way...)

Battery is now on 2 (if charger indicator says that 1 is fully charged) and it's green indicator light is starting to show- 48 hours total on trickle charge in my book means that it should've gotten to 2 sooner, so I'll be getting it load tested at the shop no matter even if it starts the jeep when I pop it back in to test. (No way I'm getting into the engine bay in these winds either- I don't fancy the jeep trying to knock me out by dropping the hood on my head like what happened on Saturday!)

A voltmeter test on the battery lugs with the charger connected reads 14.6 volts now (reading done on lugs and not the charger connectors) when yesterday it was 12.6 volts. Is this comparable to having it rigged to the alternator charging system in the car? If so, then I'm thinking it might be the alternator after all, if the battery is now accepting that higher charge. However, a previous battery did this trick and was proven knackered, as it would only accept the charge when it had x amount of power in it, so it's still 50/50 at the moment between battery and alternator. Who will win? The fix that costs nothing (battery replacement) or the one that'll cost about 120 quid (the alternator)?
Knowing the Jeep acronym, I'm betting she wants me to spend that 120 quid after all .

I looked into diesel indicator flash back- it seems to be when a diesel engine has a hydrogen canister system linked to it? Possibly LPG or bio-fuel, I'm unsure. Systems can also get put into gas engines apparently, to prevent flash back into the fuel line so a one way valve and a flame trap is involved. Mine hasn't got any of this, which is why I haven't come across it before. Mind you, because diesel is compressive and not combustive like gasoline, I guess that's why they have some kind of blow off valve in case things go tits up? Or maybe that's why diesels are prone to leaks as the pressure will eventually attack those gaskets and seals, which is why testing stations are allowed to let x amount of oil leakage through during annual roadworthy checks?

 

Man i hear you regarding storms.
In a matter of a week or so we had two whooper snow storms each dumping a foot of snow including 2-3 feet drifts with 30-50mph howling winds to boot.
I have a very long paved driveway system connecting my pole barn, garage and finally out to the street.
If it weren't for my ATV's snow plow, snow blower and trusty snow shovel i'd still be snowed in.
So bad the County issued an emergency order to stay off the roads until they get plowed.
I am so through with the #$%'n Winter and now i've got to order more propane for the furnace!
Ahh but its a Winter wonder land?....BAA HUMBUG!
Anyhow i digress and sorry for the rant.

Comparing the charger's voltage with the actual alternator's output voltage is no good.
You need to start the engine then measure the alternator's charging voltage at the battery posts and not its connectors.
The reason for that is that the battery clamps could be corroded causing a voltage drop across the clamp and battery post thereby giving a false voltage measurement.
If the alternator's charging voltage at the posts is low then measure at its clamps, if thats withing spec. then in all likelyhood you'd be looking at corroded or loose battery clamps.

Holy smokes, glow plugs can draw that much amperage!
Is that only at startup or continuous?
At startup add the starter motor's high amperage draw with that high glow plug draw!
That has got to be hard on batteries not to mention the alternator.

Now i know why i never liked or owned a diesel engine. haha!

 

That's max draw on cold start, depending on temperature, so I believe from past research when I had to rebuild the glow plug harness and swap the plugs a couple of years ago.
I think it sits on a warm day at about 75 draw amps and if the glow light stays on longer to get to temp, that's where the max draw comes into play, hence cold weather being a battery killer, especially for diesels as post temp glow light increases temp and draw for upto 30 secs I think.
Kinda makes sense now on the need for having a good battery with these things, especially when it comes to cold crank starting 👍
Also, the 1st and this 3.1tdi are the only 2 diesels I've owned. Prior to these it was petrol all the way lol
Guess I've focused on diesels for the last 10 years or so, so I definitely need refreshing with petrol systems 😅

 

Diesels have historically had a hard time starting in extreme cold weather in part to bad diesel fuel.
The reason a lot of 18 wheelers keep their engine running in cold weather.
I'm guessing these days the fuel has improved as well as the diesel engines.

Don't wait too long to get a gas or as you call it a petrol vehicle or unfortunately you'll end up driving an electric something or other.

Based on what you've said, yeah i agree i'd get the best cranking amp battery you can afford if'n it turns out the old battery is the root cause of all the issues.

Even my old 2K XJ gas or as you Britts call it petrol engine started in 0 deg. F weather soon as i touched the key in the ignition.
Got to get used to the wordings between our countries like 'bonnet' vs. the correct term 'hood'. haha

 

Biggest confusion of terms between Usa and Britain relating to car parts for me have to be:

Hood and bonnet (both are types of hat though)

Fenders and wings (where the wheel arches are- note, that I thought fenders were bumpers for years 😅)

Gasoline and petrol (or as I like to call either- 'go-go juice')

E-brake and hand-brake (aka 'Pull that mother so far up to prevent the missus from driving it, as she too weak to release it' failsafe)

Automatic stick-shift on the column and manual stick-shift with a third pedal (the clutch, to test left foot coordination with your hand, in order to become one with your engine b/s while trying to concentrate on the world around you as its trying to kill you... lets just not go there...)

And I've never driven the jeep with the stick in 1st or 2nd position- I shove her into those stationary to get some lubrication in the system for a few seconds after start-up, but I've never actually pulled away in them. I'm worried something might bust if that stick is moved without a foot on a pedal- we brits have a thing about pedals...🥴

 

The kicker for me is how people in our two countries pronounce the word 'aluminum' differently.
On a more serious note, is the word 'bloke' a derogatory term? Never could figure that one out for sure.

Have you ever driven an ancient manual transmission clash box as some called them before the invention of gear meshing synchros?
Gear grinding and double clutching comes to mind.

Too many decades ago, I had a hand me down manual transmission '60 Chevy with the 'stick' on the column.
Got rid of that thing fast.

 

Actually it's not just the pronouncing that's different, it is spelled different too, Aluminium and Aluminum.

 

Well, I popped the battery back onto the jeep today, now the winds have finally died a bit.
Battery had gotten charged to 2 on the charger (0 being totally full) and she started up nice and strong.
After initial start up, the voltmeter gauge was:

The needle was farther left when the check gauge light came on last Saturday, sitting below the 11.5 volts mid-way it's at now. (14-9=5/2=2.5 added back onto the 9=11.5.) Note that I had full exterior and interior lights on with full beam, as well as the heater blower on full blast in the above thumbnail to try and present as much load and drain as possible on the system. When I revved her there was no change in headlight illumination, telling me that the alternator is good as no battery light came on either.

When she got to temperature, I turned lights off and noted oil pressure/engine temp were fine and reading normal levels. (Engine temperature is still cool at 1/8th, hence why I'm in process of swapping out coolant amount for distilled water to get that up to at least 1/4.)

After a quick drive up and down the road, I parked up and switched off, then tried another start up- all felt fine and no glow plug indicator flashing back on after she fired up in either start up sequences. I then noticed then that the volt meter needle was fluctuating, initially dropping then rising over about a minute, and it kept repeating this between these two examples:

The image on the right is just below where the needle used to hover before this issue occurred, and it would creep up to the 14 mark after a mile or so and remain there until engine turn off. The image on the left is the lowest the voltmeter has ever read, besides when the check gauge light came on.


No check gauge light came on at all. Do you think these readings are fine regarding the voltmeter and the variation of about 2 volts, or do you think they're low and too erratic indicating the battery is possibly on the way out, like I do? It doesn't matter if the accelerator is pressed or not, or if it's driving or stationary- the variation keeps repeating itself at these higher/lower levels.
Engine is still smooth and sounds strong/runs good. No issues with glow plug circuit lighting up again. However, I decided to insulate tape over the ecm connectors to offer protection against rain, as that's where I noticed water on the connector plugs which raised my initial query that if water did indeed get inside, then would it cause the check gauge light to come on as the voltage regulator controller for the alternator is in it?

Either way, I'm taking the battery to get tested at the shop tomorrow, and if they pass it then fine- I'll just keep monitoring the gauges as it might still be the alternator and I have breakdown recovery should it fail. If they fail the battery load test/amp draw, then even better as it means I get a new one because it's still under it's 5 year guarantee.

As I say, there's still life in the old lady yet (whilst I'm touching wood this time).

 

Ps- the aluminum vs aluminium is in the spelling, as we all know. We add that extra i, effectively giving us an extra syllable and eum sound instead of um at the end. I don't know why. It really screws it up for some accents that we have, especially in the West Midlands where I live.
We Brits are renowned for over-complicating simple things like that...just look at Boris Johnson our PM...
and our fetish for clutch pedals
and bonnets

I don't think bloke is a derogatory term myself, but then again I can think of a lot worse to call some folk around these parts where I live
That bloke over there... That chap over there... That wanker over there... That gob-shite over there...
We have a lot of fond terminology for gentlemen of all categories that reflects how they project themselves onto us.
The average Joe is any bloke, chap, man, dude, fella, matey, mate, sir, amigos, etc. All good terms.
However, when they get too much booze in them, then it swings between friendly banter or fisticuffs, usually depending on how much crap they've got from the work or home front.
Bit like any bloke in the world really

 

Ps- the aluminum vs aluminium is in the spelling, as we all know. We add that extra i, effectively giving us an extra syllable and eum sound instead of um at the end. I don't know why. It really screws it up for some accents that we have, especially in the West Midlands where I live.
We Brits are renowned for over-complicating simple things like that...just look at Boris Johnson our PM...
and our fetish for clutch pedals
and bonnets

I don't think bloke is a derogatory term myself, but then again I can think of a lot worse to call some folk around these parts where I live
That bloke over there... That chap over there... That wanker over there... That gob-shite over there...
We have a lot of fond terminology for gentlemen of all categories that reflects how they project themselves onto us.
The average Joe is any bloke, chap, man, dude, fella, matey, mate, sir, amigos, etc. All good terms.
However, when they get too much booze in them, then it swings between friendly banter or fisticuffs, usually depending on how much crap they've got from the work or home front.
Bit like any bloke in the world really

So 'bloke' means something like referring to an ordinary 'guy'?
The reason i asked is i've heard that term used in some derogatory references to other men but then again not always.

The word 'bloke' brings to mind the word 'bloat' like a dead animal bloating in the hot sun, a woman's monthly bloats, bloating from eating too much beans and cabbage , etc.
Some Americans when we don't know exactly what a Britt term means tend to rhyme and reason our way through. haha

Anyhow how is the battery/alternator/electrical trouble shooting progressing?

 

I was in the local shop 2 days ago chatting to the owner about how well my old lady WJ is doing, and I had no wood to touch for tempting fate.
Yesterday, I popped to garage/fuel station, about a mile away, and no problems on start up and driving, although it was raining heavily and I had popped the hood to do the usual oil/coolant and general condition check beforehand.
Stuck in some diesel, started her and noticed the diesel indicator coil flashed back on as I turned her over. Pulled off forecourt and had a sequence of chimes accompanying check gauge light flashing.
Drove her back home, driving felt fine, but it fired off chimes and light 3 times in 3 sequences.
Oil pressure is fine. Engine temp was creeping up off the c. No problems with these 2.
Battery level on the voltmeter, instead of reading 14 when engine running, was instead on the higher side of the red, sitting about 12v.
Got home, parked up. Turned off. Tried restart. Battery acting flat as a pancake. Seems to have not been charged or isn't holding it.

So, it's either the battery buggered (4 years old) or the alternator recharging system (alternator is 5 years old). Belt is fine. No dragging or squeals from alternator.
Reason why I mentioned the rain is that I noticed water on the pcm electrical connectors outside of its fuse/relay box where it connects to voltage regulator unit for alternator, so some might have gotten into its electrical connections and caused it to ground when I had the hood opened. This is highly unlikely but something to note, as sometimes the unlikeliest things cause issues.

Battery was put on charge- if 6 is flat, it was reading 4. Had it on charge for 12 hrs so far, and it hasn't moved from 3 for the last 8 hours. Voltmeter indicates 12.9 volts and no green light on its health indicator, indicating potential battery fail.

Because its still raining from this storm Eunice, I'm not doing jack today 😒. Next step for me is to pop battery on and get the missus to start her up with myself rigging up the voltmeter and checking volt/amp draw and if she starts, then checking the alternator load to battery.

I'm betting its the battery. What do you think? Any hints would be appreciated, as the check gauge concerns only voltmeter/oil pressure and engine temp, of which the voltmeter was the only one at 12v that was out of sync in behaviour.

I'll keep updating as and when, as this may help others who have the check gauge light activated.

Hello bruv, just thought I’d check in & see anything new & saw your post. Man, sorry this happened, I know it’s the last thing you need! In the first message you stated 3 chimes in 3 sequences? Can I ask, what did the readout on the top state when they went off? I only just looked this up cos it’s happening here also. & saw a YT vid stating I had to look up at the readout in the centre light console was for info on the beeps Be interesting to know how deep the info on that centre console goes into? I really wish you the best when you take in your battery 2moz. Apologies I have nothing to offer but i’ll keep a butchers on this to see your progress. Fingers crossed you get a replacement either way! Nothing like a new piece of kit to fit in a car or a PC & I’ve learnt something new! I didn’t realise we spelt Alu differently! I thought it was just a Nike vs Nik.E situation Learn something new everyday! But good luck bruv I’ll keep watching. Cheers!

 

Hi Morse, I hope all's well and your hospital appointment went as good as can be expected.

I'm not worried about Jeep issues to be honest nowadays. We're on benefits as missus is disabled with back issues and I'm her full-time carer. This suits me as I'm not really materialistic but I like the simple things, such as having a vehicle running, so this check gauge issue has taught me new things and also refreshed old knowledge, which is good. (And I worked in factories for 17 years and as a carer in the community for 4, so I'm having a rest to expand my knowledge!)

Our circumstances also means I have time to maintain the WJ and work on a project I'm researching about serial-killers, which has replaced my studying for a degree in English Literature and Creative Writing with the Open University for now (which I was a year away from completing having done 5/6 years, but have put on hold while researching this project). Phew, so that's how I fill my time- splitting it between serial-killer shit, jeep-stuff, family life and choosing what crap to watch on Netflix that Sky hasn't played, whilst also trying to dodge Covid like everyone else!

Anyways, the issues with Jeep's breaking is an old joke amongst us owners called 'the Jeep thing' .

Just Empty Every Pocket .

You get to accept it, then eventually learn not to stress over the quirky issues they throw at you. This is when you get to learn new things by doing some research from what others have shared concerning their problems, and then treating every screw-up as a project instead of what they really are- parts crapping out due to old age that any home mechanic can try and have a go at replacing, which is the beauty of the WJ and older generation GC's as they are relatively easy to work on when compared to some really stupid layout ideas that engineers keep putting into a lot of their vehicles.

(FCA- I demand solid axles back in the GC before I buy any newer model GC beyond WJ. I also demand heated seats that work forever and blend doors that are indestructible, so we no longer freeze our butts off! And no, we don't want over-heating centre-consoles to compensate either! And while we're at it- all diesel manufacturers: get rid of DPF and go old school!)

I think patience also plays a big part of my problem solving processes, as it means being able to take a step back in my approach to any problem with a logical frame of mind which, for me, is more constructive than having an angry emotional frame of mind that clouds my judgement. This may lead to more positive solutions instead of losing one's rag and breaking things even more, which I used to do quite a lot when I'd get the old lump hammer out to tackle an issue- talk about using a wheel to break a butterfly!
Logical approaches also gets the brain into a problem solving mood for me, as my emotional judgements can cause me to grasp at straws and commit errors beyond what may be obvious solutions and answers, such as rounding that bolt even more or breaking that pipe through frustration. However, I do like trying to eliminate the variables by double/triple checking possible solutions, so there's definitely no problem in asking for ideas and opinions when problem solving, even if they may seem silly or stupid. In my book, such suggestions often generate outside of the box thinking and 'red-neck repairs' as my wife (a Texan-Cherokee) likes to call them.

I think rain-water did get into the ECM plugs, so allowing it to dry (if indeed it did) prevented any further problems. When it comes to anything to do with water and electronics, then I find it best to wait a few days once the issue is potentially identified and fixed before chancing it, so it can dry out properly. In this regard, I thank God for old hair dryers and plenty of insulating tape that I've now wrapped around those ECM plugs to protect it from rain when I pop the hood in the future. Storm Gertrude or whatever name these weather-people are going to give the next storm- I'm ready for you!

I didn't see anything on my EVIC display (Electronic Vehicle Information Centre) when I had the check gauge light indicator come on in the cluster housing. I just noticed how low the voltmeter needle was when compared to its usual position mid-way on the gauge, whilst the oil pressure and engine temperature were behaving normally. That check gauge light only signals a problem with the voltmeter/oil and temp, so it's always best to start with what looks the obvious- the needles themselves. The EVIC alerts me to low coolant, low screen-wash and doors/tailgate/hood open, which are the only ones I've seen displayed in mine. Oh, and the indicator left on alert after a mile of driving, as well as the Jeep beeping and going mad when the bonnet isn't latched down properly whilst driving.

The battery check is free, so it's a win-win for me. Either it's good or it's bad, and if it's bad I get it replaced for a new one that'll be good for another 4 years.
If it's good so it might be the alternator, then I'll order a new one, pop it on and recondition this one with new bushings so I'll have a spare for the future. (I busted my black voltmeter cable to check the alternator, so I'll repair it tomorrow and test it after the battery's been inspected and put back in.)

Anyways, there's plenty more to worry about than if the Jeep is running in my book. Health before wealth, I say .
And enough of my digressions. Keep us posted on any issues you've got with your WJ build mate, especially with the check gauge issue you mentioned.
Take care in the meantime.
Sean.

 

Hi Morse, I hope all's well and your hospital appointment went as good as can be expected.

I'm not worried about Jeep issues to be honest nowadays. We're on benefits as missus is disabled with back issues and I'm her full-time carer. This suits me as I'm not really materialistic but I like the simple things, such as having a vehicle running, so this check gauge issue has taught me new things and also refreshed old knowledge, which is good. (And I worked in factories for 17 years and as a carer in the community for 4, so I'm having a rest to expand my knowledge!)

Our circumstances also means I have time to maintain the WJ and work on a project I'm researching about serial-killers, which has replaced my studying for a degree in English Literature and Creative Writing with the Open University for now (which I was a year away from completing having done 5/6 years, but have put on hold while researching this project). Phew, so that's how I fill my time- splitting it between serial-killer shit, jeep-stuff, family life and choosing what crap to watch on Netflix that Sky hasn't played, whilst also trying to dodge Covid like everyone else!

Anyways, the issues with Jeep's breaking is an old joke amongst us owners called 'the Jeep thing' .

Just Empty Every Pocket .

You get to accept it, then eventually learn not to stress over the quirky issues they throw at you. This is when you get to learn new things by doing some research from what others have shared concerning their problems, and then treating every screw-up as a project instead of what they really are- parts crapping out due to old age that any home mechanic can try and have a go at replacing, which is the beauty of the WJ and older generation GC's as they are relatively easy to work on when compared to some really stupid layout ideas that engineers keep putting into a lot of their vehicles.

(FCA- I demand solid axles back in the GC before I buy any newer model GC beyond WJ. I also demand heated seats that work forever and blend doors that are indestructible, so we no longer freeze our butts off! And no, we don't want over-heating centre-consoles to compensate either! And while we're at it- all diesel manufacturers: get rid of DPF and go old school!)

I think patience also plays a big part of my problem solving processes, as it means being able to take a step back in my approach to any problem with a logical frame of mind which, for me, is more constructive than having an angry emotional frame of mind that clouds my judgement. This may lead to more positive solutions instead of losing one's rag and breaking things even more, which I used to do quite a lot when I'd get the old lump hammer out to tackle an issue- talk about using a wheel to break a butterfly!
Logical approaches also gets the brain into a problem solving mood for me, as my emotional judgements can cause me to grasp at straws and commit errors beyond what may be obvious solutions and answers, such as rounding that bolt even more or breaking that pipe through frustration. However, I do like trying to eliminate the variables by double/triple checking possible solutions, so there's definitely no problem in asking for ideas and opinions when problem solving, even if they may seem silly or stupid. In my book, such suggestions often generate outside of the box thinking and 'red-neck repairs' as my wife (a Texan-Cherokee) likes to call them.

I think rain-water did get into the ECM plugs, so allowing it to dry (if indeed it did) prevented any further problems. When it comes to anything to do with water and electronics, then I find it best to wait a few days once the issue is potentially identified and fixed before chancing it, so it can dry out properly. In this regard, I thank God for old hair dryers and plenty of insulating tape that I've now wrapped around those ECM plugs to protect it from rain when I pop the hood in the future. Storm Gertrude or whatever name these weather-people are going to give the next storm- I'm ready for you!

I didn't see anything on my EVIC display (Electronic Vehicle Information Centre) when I had the check gauge light indicator come on in the cluster housing. I just noticed how low the voltmeter needle was when compared to its usual position mid-way on the gauge, whilst the oil pressure and engine temperature were behaving normally. That check gauge light only signals a problem with the voltmeter/oil and temp, so it's always best to start with what looks the obvious- the needles themselves. The EVIC alerts me to low coolant, low screen-wash and doors/tailgate/hood open, which are the only ones I've seen displayed in mine. Oh, and the indicator left on alert after a mile of driving, as well as the Jeep beeping and going mad when the bonnet isn't latched down properly whilst driving.

The battery check is free, so it's a win-win for me. Either it's good or it's bad, and if it's bad I get it replaced for a new one that'll be good for another 4 years.
If it's good so it might be the alternator, then I'll order a new one, pop it on and recondition this one with new bushings so I'll have a spare for the future. (I busted my black voltmeter cable to check the alternator, so I'll repair it tomorrow and test it after the battery's been inspected and put back in.)

Anyways, there's plenty more to worry about than if the Jeep is running in my book. Health before wealth, I say .
And enough of my digressions. Keep us posted on any issues you've got with your WJ build mate, especially with the check gauge issue you mentioned.
Take care in the meantime.
Sean.

Hi mate, I’m really sorry my friend. I won’t bore you with it, but really rubbish week with my health & with that medical not going so well! I honestly thought only a couple of days had passed, but it’s now 6 days. Man time just zooms past nowadays! & before you know it a week, month or year has passed you by, it’s crazy as we get older! I started reading last night but couldn’t carry on so just got up & slowly finished of reading yours & other members posts. Sorry Sean mate! It was in my heart but my body & head wasn’t following suit. But I hope to get stronger soon so these moments become less prevalent & I can work through things that had me stumped & be as present as I always was a few years back.

But anywho, done some real living & learning in this thread alone! I never knew a battery peaked over 14 until now. I thought it’s maximum was 12. But I was looking online & found this, which mirrors what moparado & yourself was stating:

How to Test Your Auto Battery | Battery Testing & Maintenance

/battery-testing-and-maintenance/car-battery-voltage-and-testing

www.autobatteries.com

& on what you was saying about good mileage (great looking engine bay by the way! Love the look of the bare metal components!) I remembered about this thing called the Hyper Mile on Wheeler Dealers which is a club of people trying to get the best mileage from their vehicles! Even wearing no shoes to feel the pedals & power even more. But their driving decisions really cut down the mpg! Here’s a quick link:

& you’re spot on, I’ve learnt a ton load from things going wrong or taking something apart & putting it back. Can sometimes be an expensive lesson as i destroyed a few things in my process of learning

 

It's pretty good atm matey
Battery still going for load test tomorrow at shop and testing the jeep today was good, as it started up no problems but now has a 2 volt discrepancy from 11.5 to 13.5 over a minute or so.
It never did this before, so fingers crossed I'll get a replacement battery tomorrow 👍
Otherwise, it's fix my voltmeter and check the alternator and circuitry between that and battery itself as you directed (which I'll end up doing anyways, even if I get a new battery, for piece of mind 😉)

Regarding gearboxes from earlier post- I've only ever had synchro-meshed, but experienced the forcing into gear tactic you've mentioned when the synchro busted in one of my older cars, a Ford Sierra. 2nd gear meshing busted and it wouldn't go into it, so I used to have to rev the pants off her in 1st to skip 2nd and jump to 3rd.
In the end, I just scrapped her when it's next MOT (yearly inspection) came up.

Oh, and then there was the 1976 vauxhall cavalier I had, whose clutch cable bracket through the bulkhead fell off, so I had to drive her with no clutch. It meant revving her to about 2000 rpm then slamming the gearstick into place while feathering the pedal.
Boy did that style of driving teach me a few things. I think if I tried that in a modern manual gearbox, it would kill it. Once I got home, I slapped a jubilee clip on the cable from the engine bay side and it held it against the bulkhead no problems after that.

That car also had falling drivers and passengers window syndrome, so changing the WJs over was a doddle 😆

 

Was the 2 volt difference at startup?
If so that could be the glow plug amperage draw loading down the battery.
All batteries have a more or less an effective internal impedance measured in ohms.
According to Ohms Law (V = I x R), the heavier the amperage through that impedance the greater the internal voltage drop across it which subtracts the voltage at the battery posts.

Yeah i had to drive my old '64 souped up Plymouth a few blocks when the pressure plate eye bolt snapped.
Have to time the rpms and speed perfectly. Not fun.
Made it to the nearest hardware store and bought an ordinary eye bolt and crawled under the car for a bush fix in the hardware store's parking lot.

Another time same car, the throttle cable broke.
That big Holley carb's throttle return spring i installed on that 413 beast of an engine was a little too much for that old stock throttle cable.
The bush fix this time was a clothes line string that got me home without calling a hook which i couldn't afford back in my College days.

 

Hi mate and had some successes regarding this gauge light issue.
The 2 volt difference yesterday was after start up when I popped the battery back in and started her up. Pre ignition, it's level was 12v which is normal, then rose to the 13.5 and dropped to 11.5 in about a minute then would rise again back to 13.5. I wasn't sure whether this was normal after having the battery out for a while, as I understand some systems have to 're calibrate' for 20 minutes or so, which is how long I ran the test for.

This morning, before I took the battery to get checked, and after having left it connected in the Jeep overnight, I decided to start her up and see what the voltmeter read. It started up smooth with no problems (like yesterday). Now it sits at exactly 14v on the meter -its normal level.

Gobsmacked cat expression of wtf?

I took the battery to the shop anyway, just for my peace of mind. As they tested it. I explained what had happened on Saturday with the heavy downpour as I was checking the fluids, and the possibility of water ingress into the ecm connector because of the amount I noticed lying over them. He nodded that it could be a possibility, as the ecm voltage control regulator for the alternator might have grounded through the water and stopped the alternator from delivering charge to the battery, thus draining the battery itself as the system performed a 'protection' shutdown to prevent further ecm damage. I then asked him how the hell would I be able to drive it a mile home with no ecm functions, which kind of baffled him. He then asked how old is the Jeep and when I said a 2001 model, he looked surprised and thought it would be a newer model for doing this?
Any of this make sense to you?

I've temporarily covered the connector plugs with insulating tape now, with the intention of making a proper shroud to protect those connector plugs in the near future. I noticed that there's several connector plugs, so would it make sense if only one was compromised and the others functioned as normal within the ecm?

Meanwhile, the load check on the test read 810 amps. It's a 900 amp battery, so in 4 years and 2 months it's lost 90 amps but still has more than enough for the starter and 5 glow plugs to share. Does this 90 amps increase as the battery gets fully charged, or is that its natural yield now?

I haven't tested the alternator yet with the engine fired up- I broke the black wire for my voltmeter so I'm fixing that later and will start her up tomorrow and check if what the voltmeter is displaying at 14v is correct. (Bloody wind and rain is now starting up again, so I'm not chancing water ingress again!) I'm guessing the alternator is also fine (it's only 4 years or so old, but that means nothing with parts crapping out in the hostile environment of an engine bay).

So, from this experience, and if the alternator proves itself fine with the system no longer throwing up anymore 'check gauge' lights (which it hasn't during testing), then I may have something else for owners of WJ's to note if their ecm sits in the engine bay near the fender and fuse box- get it covered, so if you do have to pop that hood in the rain, you won't have it getting soaked and throwing a wobbly.





.

 

After all these replies I forget now, what was the main issue again?
Not cranking? CELs?, Gauge not showing charging? Low battery voltage? etc.?

I'd say that battery is probably good if its stand alone voltage is around 12.6 volts DC give or take a few tenths of a volt after a good trickle charge.
One thing to keep in mind though the battery could have an intermittent short plate to plate.

I doubt the PCM connector had anything to do with charging the battery or its voltage.
The PCM connector is next to hermetically sealed typically with greased contact pins.
It would take a complete dip in a river.
More than likely it a ground issue or the alternator's brushes got soaked.

Yes the PCM now a days controls the alternator's voltage regulation.
No more separate voltage regulator module bolted to the firewall as in the olden days.

 

It was the check gauge light illumination with a low volt reading that triggered it.
As it stands, no repeating of the fault yet, with about 30 minutes running it. I'll take it for a good drive tomorrow to see if it repeats, but so far it all seems fine.
The mechanic who tested the battery did ask if water got into any other components besides these plugs to which I couldn't see, but I bet more rain got onto alternator that I didn't see now you mention it, and allowing it to dry out may have rectified itself.
Stupid weather...or stupid me for popping the hood and not closing it quick enough when a downpour suddenly hits? 😆

 

In addition to water getting inside the alternator it could of also got into the alternator's voltage regulator connector.
Or the alternator's brushes could be worn causing intermittent voltage output problems.
At the time, rain water along with maybe grease, dirt and oil from the engine compartment getting in the brush area could of made worn or even good brushes temporarily act up.

"It ain't over til the fat lady sings"
Even though everything seems to be working, really need to check the alternator's out put voltage with engine running to dot the i's and cross the t's. At least thats what i'd do.

The voltage at the battery posts should be ideally anywhere between 13.8 to 14.8 volts DC dependent on the ambient temperature and the electrical load considering the high glow plug amperage draw, AC running, lights on, etc.

 

Now I've fixed the voltmeter, I'll be checking the alternator later. Thank you for figures and I'll relay readings when done 👍

 

Roflmao at this Moparado...
I haven't been out to jeep today having a break from her lol.
However...do you play the daily Wordle? I've had a couple of goes and usually get it in 3 or 4.
Well today I played, and if you play it and it's the same word worldwide....WARNING If you read on it gives the Wordle solution for today in UK....

You asked me about bloke being a derogatory term in this feed, which is why I tried it 👍
About has 2 consonants, t being high in frequency usage for English and b being just below half in average uses, and any starter word with 2 consonants and 3 vowels to give a good feedback on vowels contained works for me.
1st time I've got it in 2 lol.

Thank you for the inspiration/idea of trying bloke hehe 👍

 

4 year old battery. Either way, start with the battery. Average life of a battery is 3-5 years. Go from there

 

Hey Seakir, now you got me

ABOUT
BLOKE?


Now i got you think'n on them there Blokes!
Thanks, i needed a good belly laugh today!

Now you might want to enter the UK version of aluminiumum and see what that word game comes up with.

 

Lol
Be funny if tomorrow's wordle is any of the following:
water or leads or volts or power or jeeps or leaks or chaps...
It would make me think someone at the NY Times is reading our posts.
My missus, who is Texan/Cherokee, remarked that bloke isn't an American word and couldn't get it in any of her attempts, so she was slightly miffed about it rofl.

I then told her how I got it and she said that's crazily coincidental, we're psychic or someone at NYT owns a Jeep WJ
And she thinks there's going to be a lot of miffed off American wordle players now 🤣

 

Of course Bloke isn't an American word least around these parts. haha
Ok i finally had to get the definition of Bloke from the esteemed Websters online dictionary:
Looks to me like Bloke can mean anything one wants it to mean!

Definition of bloke

chiefly British, informal ....man sense 1a(1), fellow sense 4c
.....But he himself was no ordinary bloke.— Ian Templeton
… always knew a bloke who knew a bloke who had something or other on the highest authority.— Tim Winton
.... I'd never go out with a bloke to whom I hadn't been properly introduced.— Dillie Keane
....Surely a bloke is entitled to have his drink made the way he wants it.— E. Grisdale

Synonyms

• bastard, buck, cat, chap [chiefly British], chappie [British], dude, fella, fellow, galoot [slang], gent, gentleman, guy, hombre, jack, joe, joker, lad, male, man

 

Talking of solving one of life's mysteries.... (and look at this for a way to link back to my original post about the gauge issue- problem resolved! I have also began to notice that there's plenty of digression in my threads- I LOVE DIGRESSION! -read Catcher in the Rye- it all gets my thumbs up as tangents are the best!)

So, I got the old lady started up and popped the old voltmeter on the battery terminals (not the battery posts themselves) a couple of minutes later to get this reading:

That;'s supposed to be a 2, giving 14.12 volts from the alternator to the connectors.

I then took a reading from the battery posts themselves, to make sure the same voltage or similar was reading, thus indicating a good conduit between charge system and receiver:

14.17 volts, a discrepancy of +.05 volts. Seems to be good for me, as that would seem to be a trickle in the grand scheme of things.

I then checked the dash cluster to see if any 'check gauge' warning light was active, and to make sure the volt meter/battery charge gauge was also reading 14 volts, which is where it normally sat before this issue happened:

No check gauge warning active and although the needle looks below the 14v mark on the gauge, it's right on it from a straight-head viewpoint:

Took her for a test drive, repeating the route where the issue took place, and no problems whatsoever. In fact, she's actually got a decent kick-down without or with the turbo engaging, depending on how I press that pedal. She's more responsive with power feeling immediate, so I think taking the battery off then putting it back on to reset modules so they can readjust to new perimeters in the 20 minute window, seemed to have done some good. That, and the fact I took the MAP sensor out of the air manifold and cleaned about 4 mm of crud off it, may have just given this old lady another breath of life....

Thank you for the tips Moparado-the figures and processes regarding the voltage checking worked fantastically, and I'm now convinced it was from water getting over the electrical s when it down-poured that triggered the check gauge warning in this case. And what have I learned? Don't go popping that hood when the weather's crud!

 

Talking of solving one of life's mysteries.... (and look at this for a way to link back to my original post about the gauge issue- problem resolved! I have also began to notice that there's plenty of digression in my threads- I LOVE DIGRESSION! -read Catcher in the Rye- it all gets my thumbs up as tangents are the best!)

So, I got the old lady started up and popped the old voltmeter on the battery terminals (not the battery posts themselves) a couple of minutes later to get this reading:

View attachment 240736

That;'s supposed to be a 2, giving 14.12 volts from the alternator to the connectors.

I then took a reading from the battery posts themselves, to make sure the same voltage or similar was reading, thus indicating a good conduit between charge system and receiver:
View attachment 240737

14.17 volts, a discrepancy of +.05 volts. Seems to be good for me, as that would seem to be a trickle in the grand scheme of things.

I then checked the dash cluster to see if any 'check gauge' warning light was active, and to make sure the volt meter/battery charge gauge was also reading 14 volts, which is where it normally sat before this issue happened:

View attachment 240738

No check gauge warning active and although the needle looks below the 14v mark on the gauge, it's right on it from a straight-head viewpoint:
View attachment 240739

Took her for a test drive, repeating the route where the issue took place, and no problems whatsoever. In fact, she's actually got a decent kick-down without or with the turbo engaging, depending on how I press that pedal. She's more responsive with power feeling immediate, so I think taking the battery off then putting it back on to reset modules so they can readjust to new perimeters in the 20 minute window, seemed to have done some good. That, and the fact I took the MAP sensor out of the air manifold and cleaned about 4 mm of crud off it, may have just given this old lady another breath of life....

Thank you for the tips Moparado-the figures and processes regarding the voltage checking worked fantastically, and I'm now convinced it was from water getting over the electrical s when it down-poured that triggered the check gauge warning in this case. And what have I learned? Don't go popping that hood when the weather's crud!

14.17 charging volts seems just a hair low but good nuff to keep the battery charged and the gauges happy.
Again the charging voltage at idle depends on the electrical load required by the vehicle at the time and the alternator's max spec. output amperage at idle rpms.
Alternator amperage output specs are rated at certain typically high rpms but rarely not low idle rpms.

I agree, my guess is that water got into the alternator or the water caused the serpentine belt to slip.
You're good to go far as battery charging but if it happens again do the same measurements.
Now you can go driving your Jeep again without too much more worries.