[Tomalapala]

The biggest bolt goes through the brace and the subframe/cradle to the body/chassis, the rest of the bolts just through brace to the body/chassis.
So you want to make sure you remove only one bolt at a time that goes through the "SUBFRAME"/"CRADLE" to the body. You can and have to remove all the bolts to the brace.

That means, you have to remove one brace and re-install it and torque it down before starting the next one.

If you do it that way, you remove only one of four bolts holding the subframe/cradle to the body at a time. The subframe is supporting the engine/trans/xfr case and is heavy itself, you will notice just removing one bolt that goes to the subframe, that corner of the subframe will sag a half inch from its weight alone.

Since you plan on only doing one brace, this is not a concern for you, you pull all the bolts for that one brace and re-install them with the new brace.

What we're warning against, is someone that might try to replace both braces and remove both braces at the same time, both braces off at the same time. That would leave only the front two bolt of the subframe holding the subframe to the body and two rear bolts holding the subframe to the body out, with the weight and forces on the subframe, its not hard to imagine that could cause some damage, if not serious damage.

The big bolt that goes through the brace and subframe to the body/chassis takes a lot of torque to break free, you should get a 2ft breaker bar if you do not already have one.

Thank you!! That makes perfect sense.

 

[Tomalapala]

The biggest bolt goes through the brace and the subframe/cradle to the body/chassis, the rest of the bolts just through brace to the body/chassis.
So you want to make sure you remove only one bolt at a time that goes through the "SUBFRAME"/"CRADLE" to the body. You can and have to remove all the bolts to the brace.

That means, you have to remove one brace and re-install it and torque it down before starting the next one.

If you do it that way, you remove only one of four bolts holding the subframe/cradle to the body at a time. The subframe is supporting the engine/trans/xfr case and is heavy itself, you will notice just removing one bolt that goes to the subframe, that corner of the subframe will sag a half inch from its weight alone.

Since you plan on only doing one brace, this is not a concern for you, you pull all the bolts for that one brace and re-install them with the new brace.

What we're warning against, is someone that might try to replace both braces and remove both braces at the same time, both braces off at the same time. That would leave only the front two bolt of the subframe holding the subframe to the body and two rear bolts holding the subframe to the body out, with the weight and forces on the subframe, its not hard to imagine that could cause some damage, if not serious damage.

The big bolt that goes through the brace and subframe to the body/chassis takes a lot of torque to break free, you should get a 2ft breaker bar if you do not already have one.

It worked!! I can’t believe it. Thanks for your responses.

Here’s the removed bracket and corroded bolt. You can see the tiny metal rubbing causing the squeaks around the large hole. I used this bracket to raise the front end in changing tires.

This thread was also helpful and has photos of the bracket for future readers: Creaking noise coming from this bracket.

 

[Mongo53]

Great shot of exactly what causes the problems, those little rub marks. There are metal tabs sticking out of the back of the cradle, I'm guessing they are for assembly to lift the cradle up into the body to bolt it up, that are only a fraction of inch from the brace. You put something on the brace to support the vehicle, since its in such a convenient spot to put a jack stand, the light metal brace will bend and then touch that tab. The cradle is mounted with big rubber bushings to isolate vibrations and allow some shifting of the cradle with forces. So as the cradle shifts the tiniest bit with the rubber bushings, its rubbing metal to metal on that bent brace and makes a creaking noise. The rub marks are what were making your creaking noise. A new straight brace returns that fraction of an inch clearance from the metal tab on the cradle.

I bet you saw what we talking about with only removing one bolt to the "cradle" at a time. When you pulled that big bolt that goes through both the brace and cradle, you saw despite the strong welded metal tube sub-frame, there was so much weight on it, it sagged down a good half-inch from the weight on it.... ....so you can imagine what might happen if you left the big bolt out on the one side and go and pull the big bolt on the other side, the whole cradle/sub-frame might bend a lot and maybe even permanently with all the bolts on the rear of it out.

 

[ItsSammwise]

Is this the same sound? Couldn't watch the other videos or iCloud link. It's coming from the front passenger side.

 

[Tomalapala]

Is this the same sound? Couldn't watch the other videos or iCloud link. It's coming from the front passenger side.

I wish I recorded a video of it. Mine sounded much louder and more intrusive than that. Almost sounds like stepping on loose floorboards. Very noticeable at “creaking” sound on start/stop acceleration/deceleration and not as noisy at speed.

 

[ItsSammwise]

I wish I recorded a video of it. Mine sounded much louder and more intrusive than that. Almost sounds like stepping on loose floorboards. Very noticeable at “creaking” sound on start/stop acceleration/deceleration and not as noisy at speed.

Ah ok, thanks for the quick reply. I'll still take a look at that bracket anyways.

 

[Mongo53]

Is this the same sound? Couldn't watch the other videos or iCloud link. It's coming from the front passenger side.

No, that is not the brace, that sounds like a knocking or something rocking and bumping in the vehicle. Like Tomalapala was saying, the creak from the braces is only at low speeds and it happens when the weight shifts for and aft at low speed. By low speed, I mean under 10 mph, it definite is not heard near even slow travel speeds like 25mph. And the noise is unmistakable creak, not the knocking you're posting.

 

[Tom&Eve]

Great thread and thank you for the thread. You can see the damage I did by jacking up the vehicle in the wrong place. I first thought it was do to the spacers and it was driving me insane trying to figure it out. I replaced both cross member braces without even having to jack up the vehicle. Back to a quiet squeak/creak-less ride.

 

[philski]

Had my mechanic follow the instructions to remove bolts one at a timem clean and lubricate then torque to oem spec.
No more creak. The housings were full of water and bolts rusty. Jeep dealer had no clue. Changed by struts when it was in warranty. This did not fix it. Thanks for this post. If problem returns I may change to the brackets and replace bolts and washers. Cheers, Phil
Brisbane Australia

 

[farfromovin]

Yeah, I am victim of my own stupidity by bending these brackets. Replaced front upper control arms recently and had the Jeep on stands on these brackets instead of the pinch welds like it should have been. After my install, I thought my control arms were squeaking, but it was the bent subframe connectors pushing up.
Replaced both of them and replaced one of my bolts as it was water logged and corroded. The other side was great.

 

[WK2-Overland]

Glad I stumbled across this thread! My GC has been creaking near the front of the chassis starting a couple months after I bought it, I just assumed it was because I tweaked something while offroading. I also just assumed it was something I'd have to live with forever, since it wasn't really worth spending a bunch of time and money to try to resolve. Since I have most certainly used this bracket as a jack point MANY times, this is almost certainly the cause! For $100 all-in, this is absolutely worth trying out. I just ordered everything, I'll give it a try and see if it's fixed after this! And I've got rock sliders now, so I'm definitely not using these brackets as jack points ever again.

What the heck were we supposed to use for jack points in the front, if not these brackets?!? There's really no other obvious place to put a jack.

Once I swap these out (hopefully it fixes it!) I think I'm going to figure out a way to put labels on them saying "Do not use as a jack point!" to make sure tire shops, etc, don't mess them up again.

 

[Mongo53]

....What the heck were we supposed to use for jack points in the front, if not these brackets?!? There's really no other obvious place to put a jack....

I've been using the frame rail part of the body, just behind the brace, there is a little crook in it that fits the jackstand well. But it requires the jack stand to be perpendicular to the body and a lot of jack stands are not square footing, so many might not be as stable longitudinally than when you can place the jack stand parallel with the vehicle. Putting the jackstand parallel with the vehicle, makes the brace very attractive to put the jackstand under.

 

[WK2-Overland]

I've been using the frame rail part of the body, just behind the brace, there is a little crook in it that fits the jackstand well. But it requires the jack stand to be perpendicular to the body and a lot of jack stands are not square footing, so many might not be as stable longitudinally than when you can place the jack stand parallel with the vehicle. Putting the jackstand parallel with the vehicle, makes the brace very attractive to put the jackstand under.

Interesting, I'll have to check that out tonight when I get home.

I'm wondering if this might also resolve a clunking sound I've been getting, that started around the same time as the creaking. I bought new struts, assuming that was the cause of the clunking sound (but haven't put them in yet). Maybe I'll get lucky and this will solve it, since I haven't been very excited about replacing my struts!

 

[Mongo53]

The creaking comes from the subframe shifting a bit on the big rubber bushings it mounts on. This is when the weight shifts front/rear or rear/front at low speeds, like driving in a parking lot. The slightest braking or accelerating, results in a creek, and only at low speeds. If you look above the brace, you can see a tab sticking out of the back of the sub-frame, probably there for assembly, if the brace is touching the tab, it is because its bent, its the two parts touching that creates the creak.

Another common one for the WK2, if it has the QT2 or QD2 4WD system, is the clunk (noise and feel) while pulling out from a dead stop with more than a mild acceleration. It occurs a second, or a few feet, from pulling out from the stop. The MP3023 transfer case uses a wet clutch to transfer torque/power to the front drivetrain, if the transfer case fluid (ATF+4) is degraded or low, the wet clutch will engage abruptly and cause the drivetrain wind up and clunk noise and feel. If your motor mounts are worn (another common fail for the WK2) it will contribute to this. Fresh ATF+4 usually solves this.

If you have QT1 4WD system, then you have the MP2010 transfer case that uses a planetary gear set instead of the wet clutch pack, it would not clunk from degraded fluid.

If your creek or clunk are occurring outside the parameter I just described, then its likely something else causing it.

 

[WK2-Overland]

The creaking comes from the subframe shifting a bit on the big rubber bushings it mounts on. This is when the weight shifts front/rear or rear/front at low speeds, like driving in a parking lot. The slightest braking or accelerating, results in a creek, and only at low speeds. If you look above the brace, you can see a tab sticking out of the back of the sub-frame, probably there for assembly, if the brace is touching the tab, it is because its bent, its the two parts touching that creates the creak.

Another common one for the WK2, if it has the QT2 or QD2 4WD system, is the clunk (noise and feel) while pulling out from a dead stop with more than a mild acceleration. It occurs a second, or a few feet, from pulling out from the stop. The MP3023 transfer case uses a wet clutch to transfer torque/power to the front drivetrain, if the transfer case fluid (ATF+4) is degraded or low, the wet clutch will engage abruptly and cause the drivetrain wind up and clunk noise and feel. If your motor mounts are worn (another common fail for the WK2) it will contribute to this. Fresh ATF+4 usually solves this.

If you have QT1 4WD system, then you have the MP2010 transfer case that uses a planetary gear set instead of the wet clutch pack, it would not clunk from degraded fluid.

If your creek or clunk are occurring outside the parameter I just described, then its likely something else causing it.

Thanks for that info! I have QT2, but the clunk is for sure not the transfer case. It happens when I hit little bumps in the road, almost sounds like a loose undercarriage plate bouncing around. That was why my first thought was struts. If replacing these brackets doesn't fix the clunk, then I'll eventually try the struts next (as I already have new ones sitting in my garage, waiting to be installed). I'm betting the creaking is definitely these brackets though, so most likely this will resolve at least one of my annoying noises, if not both

 

[WK2-Overland]

You guys are AWESOME! I just installed my new brackets and bolts from Mopar (all the part numbers shown on the first page of this thread are still valid for my 2019), and the creaking and squeaking is all gone! It went from sounding like I was driving an old 1965 cargo van down the road, to now nice and smooth and quiet like a proper modern luxury car Never lifting my car from those brackets again!

Some installation notes (some of these already mentioned by others, but just for the sake of having it all in one place)

1. As already mentioned by others, DO NOT remove both brackets at the same time. Always leave one of them fully installed while you work on the other one.
2. You'll need a 21mm socket for the large bolts (13mm for the small bolts)
3. I drove my car onto ramps so I had more room to work underneath
4. Support the subframe with a floorjack while you remove the large bolts - it's not required, but it makes it easier to get the bolt out, and also faster to get the new one in.
5. I couldn't get the large bolt to budge with my Dewalt 1/2 impact driver. A 24" breaker bar does the trick.
6. Lithium grease all over the threads on the big bolts, except on the part of the thread which has factory threadlocker pre-applied on it.
7. Torque the large bolts to 129ft/lb, the small bolts to at least 15ft/lb (I did 20, just to be sure it stays put), but don't go too crazy, they really don't need to be that tight as they aren't really doing much besides keeping the bracket from flopping around.

The whole job took me about 30 minutes per side.

 

[Tomalapala]

You guys are AWESOME! I just installed my new brackets and bolts from Mopar (all the part numbers shown on the first page of this thread are still valid for my 2019), and the creaking and squeaking is all gone! It went from sounding like I was driving an old 1965 cargo van down the road, to now nice and smooth and quiet like a proper modern luxury car Never lifting my car from those brackets again!

Some installation notes (some of these already mentioned by others, but just for the sake of having it all in one place)

1. As already mentioned by others, DO NOT remove both brackets at the same time. Always leave one of them fully installed while you work on the other one.
2. You'll need a 21mm socket for the large bolts (13mm for the small bolts)
3. I drove my car onto ramps so I had more room to work underneath
4. Support the subframe with a floorjack while you remove the large bolts - it's not required, but it makes it easier to get the bolt out, and also faster to get the new one in.
5. I couldn't get the large bolt to budge with my Dewalt 1/2 impact driver. A 24" breaker bar does the trick.
6. Lithium grease all over the threads on the big bolts, except on the part of the thread which has factory threadlocker pre-applied on it.
7. Torque the large bolts to 129ft/lb, the small bolts to at least 15ft/lb (I did 20, just to be sure it stays put), but don't go too crazy, they really don't need to be that tight as they aren't really doing much besides keeping the bracket from flopping around.

The whole job took me about 30 minutes per side.

Eyyyy congrats!

 

[SilkyWK2Jeep]

Wow thanks for this thread, I Recently purchased a brand new 2021 Altitude and At 500km I developed the symptoms, it drove me insane trying to figure out the noise. I went under and re tightened the bolts and shot some grease and it's super quiet now , I also tightened the upper strut bolts to wich seemed loose for a brand new vehicle
Thanks so much!

 

[Jsavi]

Hey all, thanks for this thread because I believe I have the same annoying creek coming from my front passenger area. I can see where the arm is slightly bent after jacking the car up to change a tire when I got a flat. But here's the issue I'm having. I brought my 2015 overland to my local mechanic to diagnose the creeking sounds and I'm being told its my subrame bushings and that it's a 10 hour job and they have to pull my motor to do it. After that I called my local jeep dealer and he confirmed that if it is in fact the subframe bushings that it would be a 10 hour job. After reading this thread I believe my issue has been misdiagnosed from the mechanic.

 

[Mongo53]

Hey all, thanks for this thread because I believe I have the same annoying creek coming from my front passenger area. I can see where the arm is slightly bent after jacking the car up to change a tire when I got a flat. But here's the issue I'm having. I brought my 2015 overland to my local mechanic to diagnose the creeking sounds and I'm being told its my subrame bushings and that it's a 10 hour job and they have to pull my motor to do it. After that I called my local jeep dealer and he confirmed that if it is in fact the subframe bushings that it would be a 10 hour job. After reading this thread I believe my issue has been misdiagnosed from the mechanic.

Yes and No....

The problem is the brace that attaches to the bushing of the subframe. So they are in the are correct in the general area, but not the specific part. Replacing the brace only take an hour at most, while the bushing is 10 hours labor.

Look at your bushing and the brace that bolts to the bottom of the bushing closely. The brace is in a location that is very tempting to place a jackstand or lift pad on it, but the brace is not strong enough to support the whole weight of the vehicle and will bend if you put the whole weight of the vehicle on it. Just above the brace is a metal tab from the subframe, there is no reason for this tab, so I have to assume its there for assembly only. The tab is only a fraction of an inch above the brace, so any incident where someone supported the weight of the vehicle on the brace, it will bend it and it will contact that tab just above it. So as the bushing gives and takes, the the subframe will move and the tab of the subframe will move with it, if the tab is touching the brace, then it will make noise as it moves against the brace, thus the creek.....

The bend in the brace is difficult to see, only when you remove it and put on a flat surface will you see the brace is bowed and doesn't lay flat on the flat surface, which a new brace will lay flat on a flat surface.

I would ask the mechanic to look again and see if the brace is touching the metal tab that extends out the back of the subframe, it it does, then the brace is bent and likely the contact with that metal tab above it is causing the creeking noise. I'd even insist the mechanic just replace the braces with a new one, and see if that solves it before going for the bushing replacement. The cost of replacing the brace should be much cheaper than the bushing, since its far less labor. If the creeking doesn't go away, then spring for the more expensive bushing replacement. But I suspect just replacing the brace solves the problem. Especially if you confirm the brace is touching the tab just above it, it can only touch it if its bent, and there are lots of cases it was the brace getting bent that causes the noise.

Print this out and show it to your mechanic.